The collected works of hamei - Page 66

diegel wrote: If this is a real problem, I can build dillo without xft.

Can you ? Did you know that, at least on Irix, X will serve up Type1 fonts ? And we have those ? And they are better than Truetype ?

All this stuff on top of X is, for us, just so many leeches sucking the blood from our cpu's

robespierre wrote: the code is using an incompatible definition of index(), which is an obsolete pre-ANSI C89 definition.
replace it with strchr().

Mercy buckets, M. Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité ! Caught about 57 fish with that one. For a feature that was obsoleted before 1989 there sure were a lot of them

Beat my way through a bunch of little stuff, it builds all the objects now.

Alas, linking. I hate linkers It seems that everything involved with png's is unresolved. I really don't want to wade into this swamp but ... any hints on solving linker problems ?

"Unresolved text symbol first referenced by ..."

Sometimes I hate computers.

diegel wrote: In this case there is no support for any antialiased fonts.

BFD

guardian452 wrote: there is no real package manager ...

Yay ! "Package managers" SUCK !!!

Worthless stinking ignorant loser garbage ! If I wanted Windows I'd install it ! Whoever thought that crap up should be drawn and quartered, hanged by the gonads until dead, then defenestrated in the public square. It's trash. Trash trash trash.

jpstewart wrote:

foetz wrote: does the link line have -lpng ?

And is it after whatever files are causing the errors about unresolved symbols?

I did fiddle around with this a little, so (hopefully) the most basic of errors is not a factor ?

About -lpng,

This is the result with that directive ...

That's abbreviated, there's a bunch more.

If I move -lpng to or towards the end I can get a bunch more It appears the main problem is in librw.a but that should be using the png library ?

This is what's in librw.a

I've got the general idea that everything listed in here must be referenced earlier but the paractical aspect of how-to-find that, I'm sadly lacking

Also, the whole Makefile thingy with this program is kind of weird. It seems to be kind of a mix of the imake system and the configure system. I believe configure is calling imake, sort of. It's weird.

dukzcry wrote: Also I (and think many of us) need Unicode in browser, so Type 1 are out?

There are Cyrillic Type1 fonts but maybe they are CID. That might be an adventure only the brave (or foolish) undertake

I used to lust after Unicode but after I had her, well ... the Chinese Unicode fonts suck. They work good as dbcs fonts but if you try to use the western glyphs, they are all screwed up. Talk about whacked with the ugly stick So I dunno but it's possible that Unicode ain't all she's cracked up to be.

jimbo elephant wrote: So wether it's Type1 or TrueType, it's all a scalable font of some sort

I was shocked to find that we are using bitmap fonts a lot more than we think. When I moved the 75dpi folder out of the path, lots of the fonts changed. Not even 100 dpi, 75 !

For an experiment, try this :

Check with < xset q > first, most likely you'll have 100dpi then 75dpi then misc then Type1 then Speedo then CID

Take your /usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi and rename it to 75dpi-bak. Make a folder 75dpi. Put a file fonts.dir in the new 75dpi folder with just the place-marker 0 in it. (Otherwise you're-a gonna be sorry when you try to start X again )

Now log out and log back in. (Might have to restart the computer, seems like the fontlist might stay in memory even if you logout-login, can't remember.)

Whoa

guardian452 wrote: Linux mint left a foul taste in my mouth ...

Do you suppose there are enough people in the kermyooonity to create a "distro" <spit> that's quality-centric ? It would be a lot of work but there's really nothing out there like what Linux used to be, or Irix, or BeOS or even classic Macintosh. It's all such avaricious shit now

Or is personal computing well and truly dead ?

Kumba wrote: ... the package manager ...

There. Right there, you put your finger on it, and this is probably why there will never again be a Linux I can stand.

"Package manager." FUCK PACKAGE MANAGERS !!!

Sounds like Gentoo might be nifty.

Then what ?

Yeah. A huge shitpile of applications designed and built by chimpanzees poured over the top.

What if I don't want atk anywhere near my computer ? thanks much but I am not crippled or blind.

Unicode ! Internationalization ! hooray ! I can fill my drives up with Tibetan error messages and 500 pages of html docs that are usually wrong instead of 64 kb of man pages. Cool !

What if I can't stand CUPS ?

Why the hell should I want Truetype when Type1 is what real printers use ? When Type1 is better ? When X supports Type1 without six more layers of shit ?

How about a browser that doesn't redirect me to google and facebook and tweeter and every other craphole worthless cave full of vampire bats hidden from the sun ? A browser that you basically can't make do what you want ? "Free and Open Source" RIGHT ! Sure it is ! "Pitch in like the OS/2 guys ..." RIGHT again, liars ! As if the Mozilla creeps never heard of Mike Kaply, an IBM EMPLOYEE who worked at full pay on Mozilla for TWO YEARS to get it to run under OS/2. Free and Open Source, super.

I could continue for a week

The point, to me, is that the operating system itself can be mucho nifty (this seems to be where all the Loonies with taste hide out), but if the applications are trash, what's the point ?

The Desktop, in LoonixLand, has become nothing but a mass of Windows wannabe apps, except with no quality control.

They need to get away from package managers entirely and instead put the work into making the build system robust, reliable, flexible, and functional. Kinda like autoconf already was, before the twits adopted shithub and autoreconfig -i regurgitate ... Make it so we can build the software the way WE want it, not how some acne-riddled teenager living in his mom's basement thinks is l33t.

And we need a penalty box for anyone who says, "Works in gcc !" -- a line from each ankle to the stern of Arneson's speedboat, fifteen minutes on the Bay. There's nothing like a 50 mph power enema to teach people to keep their stupid trap shut

I don't see Loonix returning to any kind of usefulness On the Desktop any time soon

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin ?

robespierre wrote: I expected you to mention Cherry 2000!

Stepford Wives or The Silver Metal Lover ?

What's it gonna be, boy ? YES or NO ? I gotta know right now !

ivelegacy wrote: so I expected you to mention a 2001 American science fiction film directed by Steven Spielberg and based on a project made by Stanley Kubrick: " A.I. Artificial Intelligence "

The Velveteen Rabbit with hardware instead of a soul ...

uunix wrote: Logans Run

Nice costumes

I saw Little Annie Fanny and her sister last night on the way home. Was in such shock I neglected to ask how much ....

jpstewart wrote: (Sorry for the delay, I've been swamped lately.)

Ees no problem, when you're getting free help, beggars can't be choosers

The link line looks a little odd,

It looks to me like this weird-ass configure script is just setting some paths, then calling imake to create the Makefile ...

As a first guess, try leaving out all of the -L options except -Lrw, and leave out -nostdlib.

Tried that in the vain hope this would be easy but alas ...

A few evenings with techpubs (did you know Aspirin is like $5 a bottle now ?) and a lot of grunt work ... to recap :

1) 2.8.15 is the last version before the Guys that'r l33t to m33t jammed in fontconfig and other noncompismentis stuff. So for the moment, 2.8.15 is what we're trying

2) Went through all the configuration files and Makefiles and quadruple-checked or changed every path and/or feature that we don't have. Changed to mips4 and -O3. What the heck.

3) added the < X11/keysim.h > and < X11/keysimdef.h > includes to

fatBitsEdit.c
menu.c
operation.c
pattern.c

(How does this kind of basic error exist for twenty years ?)

4) Changed the "index" operators to "strchr" per robespierre in

filebrowser.c
print.c
brushOp.c

in 6 or 8 places

So now it finally builds all the object files. Yay.

When it crashed linking, pulled the crap that JP referred to and ran the link line manually. Used the warnings to get rid of some more errors.

Finally, we're at this point - only four failures --



these don't seem nearly as arcane as the earlier errors. The "print.o" failure is new but all the others are the same librw problem as before, just more rational ones.

So I probably have this wrong but ... the linker combines all the object files into a complete executable. The MIPSPro linker needs to have all the references defined before it can use them. Order counts. So wherever "TestPNG" is defined needs to come in the link line before it gets to librw, is that correct ?

Seems like that should be easy but so far I have not been successful

In case anyone outside the Asylum is wondering why I would bother, this program seems pretty good. It's actually nicer to use than PhotoShop* (personal opinion). It is not impossible to convert png's or jpegs to rgb first but would be nice if one didn't have to. It's pretty nice. Really.

* Inspired me to drag out the Intuous2 and install the Wackem driver. I tried Eclipse, Amazon Paint, PhotoShop and Illustrator. Illustrator was the only one that used the pressure or tilt pen features. And I don't especially like Illustrator. It's possible that the built-in Irix tablet driver is just as good as the Wackem one for 99 44/100 % Irix uses.

Back to the linking problem ... any nuts-and-bolts suggestions ? What am I doing wrong here ?

nyef wrote: My notes on IOC3-based boards have this down as "Fuel two-port serial". I have no idea if it's 5v-compatible or not.

I'm not going to pull it out of the Octane to check the number, but have one in a cardcage at the moment. And it was previously in a Fuel, then an O350.

So I'd say "probably"

But they are kind of rare and a bit expensive.

duck wrote: I just woke up, but I think that the ld argument list is actually reversed, objects you need symbols from should come AFTER the object that needs them.

Oh. That'd explain some things ...

Libpng has traditional C function names, i.e. png_foo, so those aren't from libpng, they're likely internal to the program

The libread-write thingy looks to be the cuplrit in a lot of this ...

Almost excited myself, the help for 2.1.1 says it can read jpegs -- but it doesn't work. Back to the salt mines. But due to fiddling with this thing I did discover xwd and xwud. That's pretty neat

Graphics Magick displays xwd correctly, this program displays something but it's hard to tell what it is, while xwud displays the correct graphic except way too dark.

Intresting.

basename is found in libc unless they're clobbering the standard names.

Nothing would surprise me right now ... this thing is "unusual".

I'll be back ...

sgifanatic wrote: AI is here

Well, not really. That's not intelligence. That's "following instructions". You can set up a row of dominoes, then push the first one so they all fall down in a row. Is that "intelligence" ?

The theory of relativity and the sistine chapel were not 'following instructions'. That's intelligence.

and its footprint will continue to grow.

Not for too much longer. When there's no food in another fifty years, artificial intelligence will be the least of the race's worries.

Did you know trhat fighting fires was about 15% of the Forest Service budget in the 70's but now it's almost 50% ? This is just one example of an obvious hazard. There are so many things that will happen that we aren't even considering ... humans may survivie what they hath wrought (looking at the candidates for political office tho, there's much doubt in my mind) but even if they do, it ain't gonna be anything like what we have now.

And getting there, wherever there is, will be extremely ugly.

Whether robots are "sentient" or have "consciousness" are almost peripheral questions when considering the impact of AI with regards to all three of the fears cited above.

Dancing on the head of a pin again. The question itself is irrelevant.

sgifanatic wrote: Chess was the ultimate exemplar of human intelligence until Deep Blue.

Where did you get this idea ? Chess is problem-solving but it's not intelligence. Never has been.

Unless you are a believer in today's "get a good score on the test" version of education ... China has gone nowhere for 2,000 years because of this. The US is fast following in their footsteps. Intelligence != problem-solving.

Genghis Khan was intelligent. Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin were intelligent. Lao zi and Chairman Mao were intelligent. Bobby Fisher was an autistic freak who could do only one thing well and the one thing he did is essentially useless.

This stuff you refer to as "intelligence" is merely "being really good at solving predetermined puzzles."

It ain't the same.

It's interesting that you used the theory of relativity as an example of human intelligence. Particularly in physics, many human discoveries have been attributed to symbolic manipulation;

You miss the point. The intelligent part was not calculating the math. The intelligent part was wondering why the universe is made the way it is.

Any nc machine on the planet (even tube-driven Rooski ones) can make more accurate parts than an Italian but not a single one can conceive of an Alfa 8C or create the curves of a 275 GTB. Even humans using computer intelligence cannot. Look at a new car. They are perfect. Perfectly dead and lifeless.

Sorry. Stepford wives ain't never gonna cut the mustard.

foetz wrote:

Krokodil wrote: Dare I say that IRIX and the hardware go hand in hand.

absolutely. i'd hate to see it running on some kid's supermarket laptop

I'm kind of wondering if anyone ever got VMS to run on an iPhone ?

Vladio wrote: I just picked up an Origin to add to the collection. I'd like to use the Octane as a terminal...I'm looking for a terminal app. I'm using a serial connection.

Pardon me if you already know this and I realize you're looking for a serial terminal at this point but once you get the O200 up on the network, < rlogin -l username hostname > is a lot more comfortable than going in through the serial port. And Irix-to-Irix x-ing is way nicer than vnc or any of those other remote viewers. You can easily export the entire O200 desktop or any part thereof, over to the Octane without any extra parts or accessories.

jan-jaap wrote: I think IRIX 6.3 introduced the 'new' System Manager. Which make 6.2 the last with the old one.

I think the graphics of the newer system manager also changed about 6.5.15 ? Originally it was sort of a Victorian look, then it went more colorful and less formal. But they didn't change anything else to match, so the interface became sort of a mish-mash

robespierre wrote: I would look for Houdini Master, SoftImage 4.0, Lightwave 5.6, and Maya 6.5... they should all work on that machine.

Lightwave runs like a rocket. Not sure why it isn't more popular ?

It's been a long time since I did the overclocking thing, but as I remember the cpu boards from the 195 through the 300 were the same. 175 was different and 360 was different but in between, I think the boards were all the same. I believe you can put the 300 mhz chips into a 195 mhz module and just change a few resistors.*

Visual inspection time ....

* Unfortunately all those photos are gone from Nekochan because they were hosted off-site Shoulda caught that error in the first place

Vladio wrote: This guy's pretty impressed by his free Fuel.

Sounded innarestin' ...

woops, looks like I took a wrong turn and ended up off-course ...

nongrato wrote:

R14000 600MHz is roughly comparable to a 2.4GHz Intel CPU

This guy is saying bullshit.

Kinda. But an 800 mhz Fuel is about equal to a 2 ghz P-IV. Faster at some things, slower at others, but roughly equal.

I guess a P-IV is not exactly the top of the Intel lineup these days tho

pentium wrote: So this is why that guy on 4chan's ...

Where are you sending us, pent ?

4chan :

the bingster wrote: Your country or region requires a strict Bing SafeSearch setting, which filters out results that might return adult content. To learn more about SafeSearch requirements in your country or region, see How Bing delivers search results.

(btw, if they are really trying to filter out pornography, they are doing an absolutely shit job of it ! But what can you expect from Mickey ? )

Pontus wrote: I think it might be right up hamei's alley, unfiltered smut and gore... well to some extent at least.

I'll have you know, hamei only likes tasteful smut. And no gore. God gave us skin so we wouldn't have to see all that yucky stuff inside

smj wrote: Dammit, I want to be purple too!

<aol mode> me, too ! </aol mode>

But look at it this way, sm ... we can be the green blue of the tree, against which all those purple ornaments shine so bright

Alver wrote: Claiming that a Fuel - any Fuel - can outperform even the shittiest low-budget Intel cpu for sale at the moment at whatever task, is reaaaaaaally stretching it a few lightyears beyond breaking point.

Even a teal Indigo2 will run 4Dwm faster than any Intel machine ever built

Let's not forget, it's the software that does the work !!

Who gives a rat's ass about the cpu ?

uunix wrote: My electricity metre is showing 25pence an hour. It normally runs at about 11pence with just ....

So it's like six pence in a pie, 12 shillings in a sixpence, four pounds in a litre and half a gallon in a haypenny ?

I never could get that English money thing straight

guardian452 wrote: Long story short, netburst was an evolutionary dead end ...

I keep a P-IV around just so the O350 can kick its ass*

*When the O350 runs, anyhow.

The executable's name is xdriver but beyond that I'm coming up short. There should be some foolproof way to extract the &&*^% X resources from a program even if it doesn't want to give it up ?

vishnu wrote: Go to the directory where the executable lives and do strings xdriver | grep "app-defaults" - that will give you the executable class name, then do strings xdriver | grep -i color or bg or bgcolor etc.

Thanks, vish ! I've been hunting for a key to the Secret Codes hidden in these programs for ages. Editres can be useful but doesn't always work

Am I correct that if the application does not specify a color, that's when you get the default blue-meanies look ? So if there is no call to set a color, then there is nothing to find ?

vishnu wrote: ... then do strings xdriver | grep -i color or bg or bgcolor etc.

Sometimes I blunder into this stuff backwards ... Your first suggestion gave me nothing but this one hit the jackpot. Tons of stuff related to < -color >.

So I tried one example started from a teminal. Didn't make any difference to the display but got some feedback. Okay, let's try an SGI color instead of their example color ...

Ooh. Didn't start the program but ran about thirty pages of options past in the terminal window. I'd already tried < xdriver -help > but that just gave back the version then segfaulted.

Anyway, there's a huge number of options, many of them Irix-specific. All you have to do is feed it a bad option to get the list

Not sure if I'll ever get the colors more attractive but the hidden treasure was even better. Grazie muchoso, descamisados.

You guys are bad. You made me download Logan's Run .

The first half was silly but Jenny Agutter without any underwear and barely any overwear made it passable. Or better than passable

But the second part, hokey smokes, Alfie. Whose idea was that ? The minute he said, "We have to go back and save them" I knew it was over. Threw the file away at that point. Even Jenny Braless couldn't have saved that.

Feeling happy I didn't spend $7.50 on it when it was in the theatres.

So much for artificial intelligence ....

SAQ wrote: Have you tried setting "sgimode" on in the app-defaults?

I did now

Thanks for the idea, it was an excellent suggestion but alas, this bastard is stubborn as ... better not say.

Some of the options seem to work - for instance, the < xdriver -exit > from another window does kill the process, just like it says. There's an < xdriver - color (panel #) (r) (g) (b) > option, too. But if I try < xdriver 1 255 255 255 > it echoes that correctly as it starts but does nothing. Have tried panels 0 through 10 with no luck.

Thees deevil, she ees stubborn, mon

I have had similar problems with CD's that had a lot of Chinese filenames. Only worse, sometimes it hangs up the whole dang desktop.

Sometimes Irix doesn't like Unicode.

nongrato wrote: Hi, everyone! I am proud to introduce my first VRML scene created completely on SGI hardware.

Pretty cool

I think you are ready for Dwarf Fortress tho ...

I wonder if we could talk him into building that on Irix ? It'd be a natural for a multi-p Origin ...

commodorejohn wrote: And somewhere, God chuckles to Himself and thinks, yeah, ask Me about how that typically works out sometime .

If you enjoy the fantasy end more than the hardware end of science fiction, Steven R Donaldson, the Thomas Covenant books have some interesting ideas on that subject.

On Irix, I'd say it was all the CAD apps. Solid modelling is what drove those thousands of leased Octanes to Ford, GM, Chrysler. Then related but more specialized would be the molecular modelling and geology applications. I'm guessing that those were the guys who paid the bills.

cesss wrote: If affirmative, it's really sick that they won't take any measure for allowing future IRIX development within community driven projects (like support us by releasing specification docs or parts of source code not covered by third parties licensing), but on the other hand they'll sue you if you mimic IndigoMagic without a license agreement. I've just one word for this behavior: they're sick.

Actually, no. Actually, you are the one who is sick. It's theirs, not yours.

How about if I move into your house ? Free ? Maybe take over one or two bedrooms and the bathroom ? I'll let you use the kitchen once in a while if you ask nicely ...

What's with people these days ?

uunix, really This is a family-oriented group. If you want to play with sendmail in the privacy of your own loft, there's nothing we can do about it. But please, in public ? Think of the children