The collected works of smj - Page 15

Lots of people are having fun with the HP microservers out there. You're familiar enough with Solaris to go that route, but if you weren't I'd suggest FreeNAS since you'd get ZFS atop FreeBSD that way. But rather than managing a traditional FreeBSD server, you've got GUIs and wizards and whatnot.

NetApps were very cool when they first came out, and certainly are Serious Equipment - you can tell by the price tag and licensing costs... ;)
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robespierre wrote: Diskless workstations were an early form of thin client. The idea is that system administration and backup only need to be done for the server, and all the clients are "zero state" so require no management. In practice, they were less cost effective, because all the I/O needed to go through a very slow shared network.
I'd say this view is more in line for the 1990s than the 1980s, when diskless workstations first appeared - when Apollo DN300s and Sun-2s and -3s were the new hotness. The original impetus for diskless workstations was largely the expense and performance of mass storage. A typical diskless client from that era would be running an almost-complete operating system image, not a cut-down GUI or front-end like a thin client.

What did the mass storage landscape look like, to cause this? In the early 80s you're looking at top-of-the-line hard drives of a few hundred megabytes, using 14" platters and interconnects like SMD, and weighing hundreds of pounds. An example common by the mid-80s would be the Fujitsu Eagle , a ~470MB SMD drive using 10.5" platters that would retail for $10,000. Meanwhile in 1985 Seagate announced the ST4051, a 40MB 5.25" HDD which would initially cost you almost $1,000 in OEM quantities, let alone retail, and provide such slow access times and throughput that the same workstation running diskless could often out-perform it despite having all disk I/O go over 10Mb Ethernet to a fast server with an Eagle. Larger 5.25" HDD were available, and their prices did drop rapidly in the latter half of the 80s, but it took a while for the performance equation to change.

So when buying a lab or department of workstations that were going to need a fileserver anyway, why spend $1,500-2,000 extra per machine for poor performance and little space when you could run them diskless and get a second big shared drive on the server? In 1986 such a server package (Sun-2/170, two Eagles, and a tape drive) would list for $80,000, versus $8,900 for a Sun-2/50 desktop w/o disk. The December 198 8 add-on cost for an external "shoebox" with 71MB drive suitable for the Sun-2/50 was nearly $3,000 list...


It was common in the 90s to recycle those same older workstations as Xterminals. There were even packages like "xkernel" to help do this - actually, upon Googling, it looks like there may have been a few variants. See http://www.bond.id.au/~gnb/papers/xkernel.ps.Z for a nice overview that could be adapted to any number of systems - including DECstations running Ultrix.

Anyway depending on the dates involved, using the DECstations as Xterminals was probably a decent way to avoid the expense of buying new Xterminals, and it would be straightforward to have them run a stripped down Ultrix diskless config with an X server. And as robespierre said, allow XDMCP to manage it from a (then) big, fast Alpha. And given what CPUs were being used in low-end Xterminals, you were probably getting better performance to boot.
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lucky7456969 wrote: I've just found some of those firmwares in the public domain located at hp.com
But don't know which one I should look for.

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/ alphaserver /

First off, I doubt any of that code has been put in the public domain. Making something available for download is not the same as putting the associated copyrights or intellectual property in the public domain.

As to which you should "look for," it depends. If you're still talking about GXemul ( viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16729104 ) then you don't need anything from here.

If you're talking about MIPS-based DECstation hardware, none of them - those are all for Alpha-based systems.

If your "DECstation" is actually a DEC 3000 model XYZ , AlphaPC, Personal WorkStation, or an AlphaStation 2xx/400/500/600, then you might be able to find a firmware update for that machine under ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/alphaserver/firmwa ... _platforms .
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hamei wrote:
Larger 5.25" HDD were available, and their prices did drop rapidly in the latter half of the 80s, but it took a while for the performance equation to change.

By the mid-eighties SCSI must have existed ?
Yes, you had 8" and 5.25" drives with SASI (pre-SCSI) interfaces from the start of the decade, and SCSI became more common as the decade progressed. SCSI was commonly used for desktop workstations, and often the deskside models, but each manufacturer made different choices over the years. You might find native ESDI controllers in deskside machines like the IRIS 3000 line, MFM drives in early DEC MicroVAXen (pedestal/deskside), or with Sun you'd find SCSI controllers in the host with adapter boards like the Emulex MD21 or Adaptec ACB4000 that spoke SCSI to the host and controlled MFM or ESDI drives until mid-decade.

The 5.25" drive mechanisms only had 1/8 - 1/4rd the throughput of the big drives to start with. Translation like Sun's use of the SCSI - ESDI/MFM boards rarely helps performance, but you were often stuck waiting for the drive anyway. On the other hand, if you were only buying one or two systems at a time, you needed local disk - tons of "standalone" Sun-3's were sold with 70, 140, and 300MB drives in a shoebox, or inside the deskside models. Naturally your trade-offs and budget were different if you were buying a dozen workstations and a server...

The later you got in the decade you saw faster and bigger native SCSI drives from Micropolis, CDC/Imprimis, etc. Quantum started with 8" drives and continued down through 5.25" to 3.5", and probably supported every interface along the way... Naturally the equation changed if you were shopping in 1984 versus 1989. And once you could get decent 3.5" drives, you saw the typical 90s-style pizza box emerge that could hold one or two internal drives, and things changed again. The VAXstation 3100 line shows up around 1988, the DECstation 3100 and SPARCstation 1 show up in 1989 IIRC.
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As an additional datapoint: I've run across other phones where if the battery was sufficiently low, you needed a higher-current charger to get it going again. So for example, a friend's normal in-car charger wasn't doing anything, but the 10W iPad charger I carry around did the trick.
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Pontus wrote: Prices are usually agreeable.

.
.
.

The machine sold for 4$

Well yes, I'd call that agreeable. :mrgreen:
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They might be doing some maintenance over the weekend. It's a volunteer organization -- I'd give them another try in a day or two.

If you can't wait, go to http://plato.ccsscorp.com/hobbyist_registration.php3 and check the pull-down listing at the top titled "Choose a Chapter," and you can see if one of the other organizations might be a possibility. (You may have to then search for the organization, but at least you'll have a name.)

Good luck!
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Seagate has been offering these for a while now - original as the Momentus XT line in 2010. Review at AnandTech .

They've cycled to newer models since then and upped their marketing game a bit: http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/solid-state-hybrid/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/ ...
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Knuckx wrote: Not just a weekend thing, been trying for 2 or 3 weeks!
Oh. Hmm... That's much more disconcerting.

Knuckx wrote: Thanks for pointing me to the form. Is that the correct one to use?
That's the only form that worked for myself and others late last year / earlier this year. The OpenVMS.org site had it's "Hobbyist registration" link pointing to it. That site was still working earlier this weekend, but I see it's not responding just now when I refreshed the page. Curiouser and curioser...

VMS Software, Inc's web site is up, but I'm not sure they have an official connection to either of the other sites in question.
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Okay, I went off looking in comp.os.vms and found a thread ( here ) that it was taken down for an expected two weeks at the start of October to move to VMS Software Inc's offices outside of Boston, and it was still dragging on as of November 30th.

Hopefully it's good to know we're not the only ones seeing this / affected?
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I don't blame anybody for being discouraged, but DECUServe *will* come back. I take it as an encouraging sign that a good chunk of the active hobbyist organizers are busy with the VSI startup suff.

Cameron, when were you trying? I renewed my DECUServe membership back in March and got my PAKs in April. tomvos got his PAKs in April. Was it not working for you over the spring and summer?
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Do we need a new mirror, or is the current mirroring being fixed?
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DEC typically distributed Ultrix in two flavors - just Ultrix, or as the Ultrix Workstation Software (UWS) that included X11 and some simple applications.* So Jack might not have X at all yet. Jack, care to clarify?

I haven't done anything like this in ages. But if you've installed Ultrix alone, you can probably just follow the instructions included with X11R5 on how to set it up.



* The UWS major version typically trailed the underlying Ultrix version by one (Ultrix 3.x vs. UWS 2.x). I'm not sure what release of X11 they stopped at.
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Yup, that's DECwindows alright.

If you want whichever standard X11 apps and utilities aren't included in DECwindows, you can go ahead and build X11R5 - easiest to leave the DEC provided X server and session management alone, build generic X11 in a separate tree (e.g. if DECwindows uses /usr/X11, build for /usr/X11R5), adjust paths and enjoy life.

Leaving the DEC login and session management in place, you can probably still get your window manager of choice etc just by manipulating your dotfiles.
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Also make sure your netmask and broadcast address are being set correctly, whether your interface is being configured statically or via DHCP. For instance I use network 10 internally (e.g. hostA = 10.10.10.132) with a 24-bit netmask. Naive software, or a not-quite-right DHCP agent, might use the pre-CIDR * default netmask of 8-bits, which would cause all kinds of problems...




* Edit: Not using the class-based default netmask doesn't necessarily imply CIDR. We certainly used longer netmasks ("subnetting") on class A/B networks in the late 80s / early 90s...
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Scutboy wrote: Have fun finding a SCSI drive to drop in that thing, especially if it requires a 2.5" drive.
That was a serious problem, but there are workarounds these days. Like the SCS2SD Powerbook Edition 2.5" SCSI to MicroSD adapter.
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(What brought this ancient thread back from the dustbin after 9 years?)

I'll speak up for D.G. Yuengling & Son , the oldest operating brewing company in the US! (Founded 1829 - I'm sure that "oldest" is disputed. And sponsoring a NASCAR team disqualifies any notion of them being small any more...)

The beer revival in the US has been going on for more than 25 years, depending on where you were and what you consider that to be. There was a successful, running brew pub in Northampton, MA when I went off to college in 1986. That same year the Commonwealth Brewing Company opened a brew pub in Boston, and the Harpoon Brewery started the first commercial bottling of beer in Boston since 1964. I'm sure there was plenty fermenting (ha, see what I did there!) in other towns like Seattle, San Francisco, etc - Anchor Brewing shut down for a few years in the late 1950's, but was revived a couple times, started bottling again in the early 1970's, and had a tasty range of beers even then.
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Nice to see one shown in complete, running condition!
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Wikipedia wrote: The Ultrix Window Manager (uwm) was the standard window manager for the X Window System from X11R1 through X11R3 releases. In fact, it was the only X11-compatible window manager as of X11R1.

Wikipedia page here (it's pretty short). Which includes this link to the sources: http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/project/windowmanagers/dev/uwm/

If you are in fact looking for/needs DECwindows source, I don't believe I know where to lay hands on that.
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Don't worry, it'll die soon and you can go through the warranty replacement dance... :x
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Threadjack alert! Threadjack alert! :mrgreen:
ClassicHasClass wrote: I have a G4 Cube which I need to put a 1.8GHz card in (and a fan).
Done that - almost ten years ago now. Well, a 1.7GHz Sonnet 7447A upgrade IIRC, with fan. And the bigger acrylic cube case from YourMacStore, I think it was. And a flashed Radeon 9600 or 9700, which meant an external PSU to feed it... At the end of which, it was really depressing to see how many wires were spilling out of the poor little thing, trying to be a big-boy PowerMac - but which was still choked by the IDE controller and PC100 memory bus. Then I got a TiBook, and my Cube got set aside.

Might be interesting to see how *few* wires one could get a Cube working with. Could you use a Bluetooth dongle to eliminate the keyboard/mouse wires, for example? There used to be a nice gallery of mods and hacks over at cubeowner.com - they're low on the first page of a Google search for "G4 Cube" now.
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It's possible those were "Athenized" sources - you could dig around for a clean X11R4 tarball if you really wanted to experience uwm.

Link to split tapes: http://www.x.org/releases/X11R4/
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kjaer wrote: the source from x.org is the straight release, it's not "athenaized" unless the official distribution was.
Right, that's why I included a link to it - versus the link I'd posted earlier, which was to something that looks an awful lot like an old Athena AFS locker at MIT...

Anyway - X11R2, R3 and R4 on ROMP, eh? How long did that R3 build take? :D Reminds me of setting up X11 builds to run over the weekend back in '89-91...
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Funny. I have Yosemite running here on a 1,1 -> 2,1 EFI machine ("because reasons"), but the machine is usually Bootcamp'd into Win 7 x64. Haven't looked at what needs to be upgraded in order to migrate the 3,1 to Yosemite.
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Threadjacking alert! Threadjacking alert! :D
guardian452 wrote: 3,1 (e.g. 2008, 5400-series) is supported by apple: you push the button on the app store and cross your fingers that it works... and that's it.
Yeah, I know it's supported, and for good or ill I know the official procedure. I didn't want to go into my app inventory and worrying about what is/isn't going to work under 10.10. Besides, I can't afford to upgrade anything now anyway.

guardian452 wrote: a 1,1 is 2006 model (32-bit) and a 2,1 is the exact same machine but with 8 cores. (so, you upgraded the CPU?)
Close - the EFI and SMC firmware are different between the two models, as well as what CPUs came in them. You want the 2,1 EFI because it includes support for the Clovertown CPUs, and some fixed microcode. Anyway I upgraded the system EFI to 2,1 and the CPUs to a pair of X5355. (Haven't updated the SMC to the 2,1 version, which might be behind a sleep/resume issue in Windows 7.)

guardian452 wrote: Neither one is supported by apple so you must put your board-id and tiamo's 64-on-32 boot.efi into a custom install disk.
I went with the newer Piker-Alpha bootloader, which I gather is a fork of tiamo's, and prepared a USB drive with a Yosemite installer tweaked to allow the 1,1 and 2,1 board IDs. Mostly worked, somehow despite replacing boot.efi in two different places on the thumb drive I still had a stock 10.10 boot.efi post-install and had to put the machine in target mode to fix it from the 3,1. (Hmm... I might have allowed a 10.10.1 update before I rebooted, now that I think about it...)

guardian452 wrote: Also, the dog-turd of a 7300GT that is nearly 10 years old and was junk when new is not supported but apple will happily sell you a beefy new radeon to replace it.
Well the 1,1 came without a video card, so I was using the 2600 XT from the 3,1 in it. (The 3,1 has a Sapphire Radeon 7950.) But I wanted something with more punch than the 2600 for games under Windows, so right now there's a flashed Sapphire 5850 in there. If I can figure out how to get a working EFI on the MSI R6950 from the Dell, I'll drop that in the 3,1 and move the 7950 to the 1,1. The 7950 is flashed, so I get boot screens from it on either machine. (Yes, I know about netkas.org; I first flashed a 9700 for my G4 Cube about 10 years ago, when smalldogs was the place to be...)

(I may not need EFI on the 6950 for the 3,1 to work, but I'd prefer it.)


Note: I followed this guide at MacRumors to put Yosemite on the 1,1.
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FWIW, I had to tell NoScript to allow scripts from DuckDuckGo.com before I would get the little "menu" icon in the top right of the DuckDuckGo.com page. Once I did that, I could access that menu, choose Advanced Settings, and the Privacy Settings. Then the option to disable redirects was there.
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jan-jaap wrote: ... I can't remember the last power outage. Must be years ago.

There is no more certain way to cause a power outage than this - good luck, JJ! :lol:
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Glad it worked, and glad you stuck with it long enough for them to get back on the air. Enjoy!
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commodorejohn wrote: God, I miss the days of icons you could actually tell what they were .
So don't upgrade to Windows 8 /10 / OSX Mavericks /Yosemite - instead just wait a couple of years. They'll need to make everything look "new" and "fresh" again, and they'll invent this brilliant new design aesthetic of rich graphics and skeuomorphism , which is of course totally novel and never before seen, because they'll need a hook to sell Windows 11 / OSX Annapurna...
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Yep, nice work. Link was posted in the "SGI hardware in movies" thread back in March by foetz. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10388&p=7367326&hilit=jurassicsystems.com#p7367326
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If it is twm, it should be pretty basic in terms of what it would require to build from source. You should be able to grab it from a plain X11R[4-6] distribution - check a local site ( US mirror , EU mirror )...

* You may have to reconstitute a split tape archive, depending on release number
** I was not expecting to find a song praising an open source graphical debugger , but I did...
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TeamBlackFox wrote: Well, I didn't see it. I was also loaded when I posted that.

Wasn't offered as a criticism. I thought I'd seen it here before, so I checked. No biggie. :D
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Oskar45 wrote: BTW, don't forget to take a copy of "How to shit in the woods" with you - it's a classic"!

And now, finally, this thread is relevant to the thread title... :lol:
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Uhm, you need six HIPPI channels to balance the six Fibre Channel links?
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They still list IRIX and HP-UX on their website . Color me impressed! (unless they folded in 2013...)
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hamei wrote: Purely by coincidence, I have a suitable award right here ready to go. Just have to box it up and find an unsuspecting shipper ... :D
Now I'm worried...

hamei wrote: btw, in another little stroke for the forces of evil, the duckduckgo settings that Glizda referred to are not persistent. Even if you set it, they don't last between restarts. Nice. "Save your settings in The Cloud !"
But, dude... this is what you want . You don't want them tracking you, which they'd have to do to be able to apply those preferences automatically each time. :mrgreen:
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L: - :A3502L: :1600SW: +MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun , DG AViiON , NeXT :Cube:
vishnu wrote: ... it's a wonder the FBI isn't kicking my door in even as we speak... :evil:

GPS directions were off, give us about 30 minutes... :lol:
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L: - :A3502L: :1600SW: +MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun , DG AViiON , NeXT :Cube:
You do realize we expect you to achieve prodigious uptimes with this unit, and post them here...?
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L: - :A3502L: :1600SW: +MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun , DG AViiON , NeXT :Cube:
See, this is why we can't have nice things... :lol:

Remember kids: if your unit achieves an uptime exceeding four hours, call a doctor...
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L: - :A3502L: :1600SW: +MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun , DG AViiON , NeXT :Cube:
Welcome, and don't forget to add your general real-world location to your profile.
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L: - :A3502L: :1600SW: +MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun , DG AViiON , NeXT :Cube: