The collected works of SAQ - Page 17

A while back I got a Personal DECstation 5000/25. While it's a solid little machine, I have yet to really find the interest. Yes, it was a member of the competitively fast DECstation lineup that kept DIGITAL a bit more relevant until Alpha and NVAX could be rolled out the door, but what, if anything, really made them interesting in design or use? It seems kind of like a generic MIPS box with a variant of the generic "proprietary 32-bit expansion bus with index-card size cards" done up with a decent implementation of BSD.

robespierre wrote: Thanks for pointing out the HP-HIL counterexample. I don't want to quibble, but isn't it more of a ring?
HP seem to have dropped HIL sometime in between the C180 and C200 workstations, in 1997.
(For comparison, the Personal DECstation had been discontinued for three years by then.)
And of course daisy-chain wasn't a new idea, HP and Commodore had been using it since the '70s.

In hardware, yes. In software HIL doesn't work with any 64-bit version of HP-UX, just 32.

Alphas will run any initialization routines that are in PC-sourced PCI cards, so they'll do anything a video card needs to be brought up and set up PCI bridges properly. Alpha's BIOS emulation does not extend to BIOS calls, so your cards will still need AXP drivers.

For versatility+ availability go with a Permedia2 or Trio64V+ (runs in all Alpha software, OpenVMS, Windows, Tru64(OSF/1, Digital UNIX)). For SCSI go with QLogic ISP1040 over 3C875 (better support under OVMS/Tru64).

I don't have much Alpha NT experience (yes, I brought it up once on a 2100, but it seemed very "so what" and I never followed up), but on other OSes processors under 21264/EV6 don't play well with Radeon 7000s (though this is driver-based, and it might work under Windows if they have Radeon drivers). My advice - check the HCL, but if you find a card that's a match (be careful with cards that have customized PCI IDs!) it'll run just fine if it came out of a PC.

cybercow wrote: ... and take care that if you preffer thinkering with IRIX in late / night hours - which has a special magic attraction at least for me, powering on anything bigger than an Indy / O2 will / can produce strange reactions on your housemates faces, varyng from simple and innocent arguing up to total and delibered anti-you revolution

You get your desksides in pairs and swap them in for the endtables/coffee table supports/whatever.

Make a comment about how much road noise has increased to divert attention from the blowers.

IndyFred - I haven't sourced any I2s/Indys in a while, but I'd think you could get something for $50-$75 easy. Mine (bought when that gen were being replaced at Boeing) were $25-$35. Keep your eyes open for Octanes or cheap Fuels as well, since those are the ones coming out of the few sites left now.

pentium wrote: Are you still fighting with that thing?

Off and on. If there had been more "who cares" posts I might have passed it on. I find I use VAX and Alpha more, so I was looking for what the MIPS DECs did well/made them "special"

All the IBM docs have the 5394 firmly in the "I" camp (AS/400). It's very likely to only work with AS/400s (and you don't want to go there unless you get an absolutely complete AS/400 including software or have good friends at IBM).

AS/400 had some neat ideas, but they're so difficult to lay hands on (complete with OS/400) used at hobbyist prices that nobody's really had the opportunity to figure out what can be done with them (beyond DB stuff). My suspicion is that OpenVMS would be in the same boat (MPE certainly is), but for two things: it's more accessible and OVMS's former penetration of academia exposed more people to it than AS/400's "backroom commercial" market.

The system seems to work for IBM, though. They don't "look the other way" for OS/400 the same way they do for AIX.

pentium wrote: It just seems so absurd, that's all.
A serial communications device that only works with one lump of software. No alternatives and no open-source projects.

Welcome to the World of IBM. Yep, it only works with one machine - but you can bet that it works very well with that machine.

The lack of open-source alternatives is a result of IBM's "two minds" - some things they're very open about, other things Klaus Fuchs probably couldn't get his hands on if he tried. Most of the second category is the mini-and-mainframe stuff.

GL1zdA wrote:

commodorejohn wrote: That bad, huh? Hmm. I have a couple PCI SCSI controllers, I'm not sure if they're in the HCL though.

Mine is a simple Symbios Logic 53C875. I'm pretty sure the extremely popular Adaptec 2940 will also work. There are also NT 3.51/4.0 Alpha drivers for the Promise ULTRA33 IDE controller. If any of your PCI SCSI controllers works, please report it here.

Get a QLogic ISP1040 if possible. The drivers in some DEC OSes are PCI ID locked to only work on DEC brand 53C875s, whereas any ISP1040 will work. Not a big deal for Windows, but a little planning ahead will make things easier when you get bored of AXPWin.

Ryan Fox wrote:

pentium wrote: I've had this thing kicking around for a while. Over time I gathered up some twinax terminals here and a few lengths of twinax cable ...

I should throw rocks at you.. I had the misfortune being exposed to one of these many years ago

Let him who is without 5394s (or other specialized IBM hardware) throw the first stone.

There are those who would say that being stuck with one of these type of things that they need to get working and absent the budget to get IBM support is sufficient punishment.

Ian's 655UKP works out to be $40-$80 for the bare boards + the rest for having a guaranteed board in stock when you need it with top tier service and support.