dir_marillion wrote:
Logo ?
Must be a EU-only product - I've never heard of it (assuming some sort of adhesive and not the UC programming language)
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The collected works of SAQ - Page 9
Must be a EU-only product - I've never heard of it (assuming some sort of adhesive and not the UC programming language)
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The keyboard/mouse breakout might have been for a different machine - the AXP 3000 uses straight KB/M and I think later versions of the VAXstation/DECstation have 3W3 video connectors and the keyboard/mouse combined port (some also offer separate keyboard/mouse ports for some reason, probably you use the separate if you have the box on your desk and the combined if the box is stashed elsewhere).
The 2000s have a 1-bit monochrome framebuffer - think Mac Plus - type video. For general utility you''d probably be better off with the VAXstation 3100, especially as I hear that it has the color framebuffer installed. There's a guide on how to connect a monitor at http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html , or you can just wait for a cable to show up. The VS3100 has separate KB/M connectors, so keep a mouse and keyboard for that. Your VS3100 will run OpenVMS, Ultrix or NetBSD (probably also some more variants of BSD).
The Personal DECstation is a MIPS-based (little-endian) workstation by DEC. It runs Ultrix by design and xBSD as well. Probably the fastest of the set here, but not a VAX.
The MicroVAX 3100 is probably a model 10, possibly a 10e. I'm not sure when DEC started putting model designations on MicroVAX-3100s.
For what it looks like you're interested in I'd consider keeping the VS3100 if I were you. Keyboard and mouse can be directly connected to the back, a video cable can be borrowed or cobbled together, and it will give you color graphics similar to the VAXstation-II in the picture. Keep at least the nicest of the VAX(something)2000s, they're interesting machines and are smallish, but the small disk, 1-bit framebuffer, and slow processors likely make them undesirable daily drivers (the VS3100 will be at least 3 times as fast as the 2ks) Keep the other one for parts or swap material if you want - they can lay down the DEC format on ST-506-type drives, which can't be done on other machines without the DEC field service hardware (this makes them somewhat desirable in the old DEC community).
I'll check my cable boxes. I know I have a VAXstation external SCSI cable, and I'm not sure if the video cable I have is VAXstation or NCD X-terminal.
How many can you take?
The 2000s have a 1-bit monochrome framebuffer - think Mac Plus - type video. For general utility you''d probably be better off with the VAXstation 3100, especially as I hear that it has the color framebuffer installed. There's a guide on how to connect a monitor at http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html , or you can just wait for a cable to show up. The VS3100 has separate KB/M connectors, so keep a mouse and keyboard for that. Your VS3100 will run OpenVMS, Ultrix or NetBSD (probably also some more variants of BSD).
The Personal DECstation is a MIPS-based (little-endian) workstation by DEC. It runs Ultrix by design and xBSD as well. Probably the fastest of the set here, but not a VAX.
The MicroVAX 3100 is probably a model 10, possibly a 10e. I'm not sure when DEC started putting model designations on MicroVAX-3100s.
For what it looks like you're interested in I'd consider keeping the VS3100 if I were you. Keyboard and mouse can be directly connected to the back, a video cable can be borrowed or cobbled together, and it will give you color graphics similar to the VAXstation-II in the picture. Keep at least the nicest of the VAX(something)2000s, they're interesting machines and are smallish, but the small disk, 1-bit framebuffer, and slow processors likely make them undesirable daily drivers (the VS3100 will be at least 3 times as fast as the 2ks) Keep the other one for parts or swap material if you want - they can lay down the DEC format on ST-506-type drives, which can't be done on other machines without the DEC field service hardware (this makes them somewhat desirable in the old DEC community).
I'll check my cable boxes. I know I have a VAXstation external SCSI cable, and I'm not sure if the video cable I have is VAXstation or NCD X-terminal.
How many can you take?
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MicroVMS doesn't even have the LMF, so you don't need to worry about PAKs. LMF came about in the 5.5 days. The hobbyist license is legally valid for early versions. I'd say go with 6.2, even though that does require the PAKs- much more useful. ULTRIX is also a viable option.
OpenVMS v6.2 will run just fine on VAX(x)2000s if you have enough RAM.
VAXstation 3100 has keyboard and mouse ports on the back along with (and right beside) the big unified connector, so as long as you can get a DA15F to wire the video out pins you're fine. You do need a DEC mouse and keyboard.
OpenVMS v6.2 will run just fine on VAX(x)2000s if you have enough RAM.
VAXstation 3100 has keyboard and mouse ports on the back along with (and right beside) the big unified connector, so as long as you can get a DA15F to wire the video out pins you're fine. You do need a DEC mouse and keyboard.
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VAXstation 4000 definitely had the option of using the breakout cable for KVM, but DIGITAL did include the standalone modular keyboard port and mini-DIN mouse port as well.
DEC 3000 didn't have that luxury.
DEC 3000 didn't have that luxury.
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Looking at pictures it looks like the 2000 requires the DA-15F to keyboard, mouse and monitor breakout cable. Interesting idea- looks like that bit came about so that DEC could ship a box that brought the keyboard and mouse lines out as MMJ DECConnect lines on the MV2000.
I don't have a cable that will break those out for you, Pentium.
I don't have a cable that will break those out for you, Pentium.
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pentium wrote:
Also, I found a pinout for the keyboard/mouse/video connector so I'll look into seeing how easy it is to make a video connector. I'm assuming it would output something along the lines of RGB, Sync on green, correct?
Yes, but since it is only 1-bit mono you only have to worry about the green for this application, although you might want to wire them all up so you can use it on a color VAXstation.
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pilot345 wrote:though with both of them you could do a 900MHz Indy and who knows what with the Octane
this a real possibility? This would be a fun thing to see
You'd need hardware specs and ARCS source. ChicagoJoe has said that it's a possibility for O2 with only ARCS source. Sadly, the suspicion is that ARCS is bound up with Microsoft, who is ideologically opposed to releasing anything that is either open or free (unless the "free" is a temporary aberration to help them take over a new market).
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evil ppc wrote:mapesdhs wrote:pilot345 wrote: this a real possibility? ...
No.
SGI told me categorically the PROM source will not be released.
Ian.
When was this? Did they give you a reason?
There very likely are NDAs from other companies at play here - that would be a very good reason for SGI not being able to release anything.
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Your machines are 100% bog-standard middle/entry level PCs in SGI cases. Almost anything will work, but because of the age of the machines you'll want to shy away from anything that needs high horsepower.
Pick your favorite Windows, Linux or xBSD. I've started reaching for BSDs more as Linux has gotten more and more cruft build up and gratuitous changes (they're on what, the third(?) incompatible variant of the main C library now for some distros?) When BSDs get full ZFS the choice will be easier, since the more-advanced filesystems on Linux are still a draw.
On the Linux side there isn't much difference between enterprise and non-enterprise if you're not paying the money and you install conservatively. RedHat and SuSE are noted because SGI supports them on Altix. Your machine doesn't have all the fancy Altix-ness so you don't need to worry.
Pick your favorite Windows, Linux or xBSD. I've started reaching for BSDs more as Linux has gotten more and more cruft build up and gratuitous changes (they're on what, the third(?) incompatible variant of the main C library now for some distros?) When BSDs get full ZFS the choice will be easier, since the more-advanced filesystems on Linux are still a draw.
On the Linux side there isn't much difference between enterprise and non-enterprise if you're not paying the money and you install conservatively. RedHat and SuSE are noted because SGI supports them on Altix. Your machine doesn't have all the fancy Altix-ness so you don't need to worry.
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morpheus256 wrote: Although ram is definitely a key ingredient to ZFS, it's not the most important one. 64 bit arch is (IMO). When I put my opensolaris file server together at home I used what I readily had available, 32 bit was painfully slow. I replaced the Intel Pentium setup with a old Opteron 144? (1.8ghz) 939, and only 2gb of ddr. the performance gain was amazing, I'm still running it that way now, but I'm able to easily saturate a 1gige link both up and down.
The other thing that's really hard on processors with zfs is your raid level, raidz1, raidz2, raidz3 are killer, I was hitting 40-60% cpu with 8 spindles in raidz2 on the Opteron, switched it to mirror sets, and my cpu runs at maybe 5% copying files at 130mb/s
On a PIII system if you're trying to run zfs, RAM is the least of your problems
I was drawing together multiple lines of thought in one post - ZFS on PIII is not a good solution, but for general computing on modern hardware a new-gen FS (such as ZFS) on BSD would make it a bit harder to justify Linux (yes, better SMP, but BSD is getting there).
On the ZFS topic, I wouldn't recommend OpenSolaris or Solaris in general because of the age of the HW. Both of those really like 64-bit. On top of that you have the Solaris expense and the OpenSolaris insecurity (as to the future of the project, not so much the computer security).
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recondas wrote: The O350 can also easily be converted into the functional equivalent of a rack-mount Tezro Workstation with the addition of a Fuel VPro board: the original discussion is here ; a photo how-to of the O350/VPro installation process is here ; and instructions for changing the PROM splash-screen to display as a Tezro are here . It'd be a pretty nice way to end up with a quad processor - VPro equipped workstation.
I've not understood the drive to "convert" to a Tezro. The Onyx350 InfinitePerformance will do anything a Tezro will do and maintains the possibility of further expansion later. Is the InfinitePerformance splash screen just really bad looking?
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GXEmul was/is probably the closest to SGI emulation, but it isn't very close. There's partial O2 emulation, but that doesn't include graphics as far as I know. From a graphics standpoint Octane/Odyssey is probably the easiest (hollow laugh) to emulate, since Odyssey takes a straight OpenGL input. SGI has released documentation for Newport/IP22, so the presence of docs might counter the added difficulty, who knows.
At any rate, IRIS emulation is not close.
At any rate, IRIS emulation is not close.
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spoonified wrote: I had a couple SGI 1100 several years back although being rather plan and nothing fancy with them they were really insanely stable boards. When I first ran the Windows Whistler Beta on it I had an uptime of over 200 days. I also never had any issues running most popular flavors of linux. There is no uncommon or less common hardware on them and if I remember right the motherboards were actually OEMed from Intel and used ServerWorks chipsets. I even used the motherboard out of one in my workstation from 2000 to 2004. The only real issue I had with them is that almost all sound cards would prevent the system from POSTing and I was forced to use a USB sound card if I wanted sound.
Spoon
Intel? That's not bad, then. One of those low-end SGI boxes used SIS or VIA.
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eMGee wrote: You mean that it enables, or incites , hackers?
I'd say it's more the possibility of doing it. The same sort of thing that gets people to wedge 600MHz R7ks in their O2s and wonder how you'd put a 250MHz R4k in an Indigo1. The difference is that now Intel will go after people using the DMCA, and chances are they'll be more careful to not make a "mistake" that can be "exploited" in the way that the MP Celeron hack was.
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bigD wrote: Ow! This reminds me of when consumer level desktop publishing got big in the mid 80s with the Mac Plus. Newsletters with twenty different fonts on one page....ugh!
And 18 of them are those that are known as "garbage fonts" (there are other, less prejudicial names, but the fact remains that they were designed for occasional display use).
Intel definitely has the technological/engineering knowhow, but they let marketing have way too much power. AMD has their "bang head on wall" times as well - chiefly when they take the attitude of "we did something neat! Now we don't need to do anything for the next 4 years!".
AMD is nice in that there is much less feature disabling to "segment" the processors - i.e. they don't disable the virtualization capacity on some models. Once it's in it's in. The downside is that the chipsets don't seem to be quite as good in most cases.
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The Turbo option seems to be a bit fragile - I've heard of several having failures causing graphics lockups (have one of them with the problem). Haven't poked around enough to see if it's a RE overheat issue or something with the quad DSPs. Do know that pulling the Turbo and replacing it with a spare RE2 fixed the problem, so it's one of those.
Do the DSPs replace the Weitek GE or merely augment it? Haven't gotten far enough into the code to figure it out, and the tech info I've found doesn't go that deep into the Turbo Option.
Do the DSPs replace the Weitek GE or merely augment it? Haven't gotten far enough into the code to figure it out, and the tech info I've found doesn't go that deep into the Turbo Option.
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pentium wrote: Great to hear of another one coming back to life.
The IP6 will support a full compliment of parity 4mb SIMMS which double the memory spec to 64mb and the system does not complain about it If you can get the memory, I dare you to five it a shot.
I happen to have a bunch of the Toshiba SIMMS that don't require the stop-write-warm restart sequence to work.
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If it's an IBM keyboard you can probably fix it easily.
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Ian - what are the cache chip speed differences between 250/1MB and the 300 modules? I'm looking into doing this on my Octane with an O2k/300 PIMM-sourced R12k, but will leave the PIMM intact if it looks like things aren't going to work.
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I think that you could get a pretty good feel for how sync is being handled by throwing a scope on the output if it idles at a PROM menu. You probably wouldn't be able to separate R G and B, but you could see where H and V were, and whether or not they were mixed.
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kjaer wrote: probably... if I had a 'scope, and any indication the system was getting far enough to show the PROM menu.
If you need one I have one and am semi-local.
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So exactly what machine is HPSERV? Looks like an AlphaServer 1000-type box but a bit different.
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VAX 4000 model 200 with 32MB and HSD05. OpenVMS
VAXstation 3100 model 76 32MB/1.0whatever-is-the-max-for-ovms GB. OpenVMS
VAXstation 4000 model 60 92MB/4GB. OpenVMS.
Personal DECstation 5000/25. Nothing permanent yet.
DEC3000 model 300X, 192MB, 4GB (considering trying to hack in a DECchip 21064A/275 for speed boost) OpenVMS.
DIGITAL Multia VX42. 128MB, no drive (uses SCSI laptop drives, so external drive is the way to go).
AlphaServer 1000A 5/333, 384MB/many drives. Permedia3 graphics OpenVMS, Tru64, Digital UNIX, Alpha Linux (should be BSD, working on changing that).
AlphaPC 164 with 500MHz 21164 and 256MB RAM. No OS yet.
VAXstation 3100 model 76 32MB/1.0whatever-is-the-max-for-ovms GB. OpenVMS
VAXstation 4000 model 60 92MB/4GB. OpenVMS.
Personal DECstation 5000/25. Nothing permanent yet.
DEC3000 model 300X, 192MB, 4GB (considering trying to hack in a DECchip 21064A/275 for speed boost) OpenVMS.
DIGITAL Multia VX42. 128MB, no drive (uses SCSI laptop drives, so external drive is the way to go).
AlphaServer 1000A 5/333, 384MB/many drives. Permedia3 graphics OpenVMS, Tru64, Digital UNIX, Alpha Linux (should be BSD, working on changing that).
AlphaPC 164 with 500MHz 21164 and 256MB RAM. No OS yet.
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kjaer wrote: Looks like it takes 30 pin SIMMs. Good thing SAQ left me with a pile of them. Possibly I could use some more...
1GB worth? 2GB worth? Don't think I still have 4GB - quite - but there are a lot.
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So are the O2 300 modules' R12ks BGA?
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mapesdhs wrote:
I highly doubt it... I was under the impression from earlier comments that the BGA stuff didn't start until the 400 speeds. Hence why I
wonder about being able to fiddle with a 360. An O2/425 would be nice. Orig 400s are too valuable to stick in hobbyist systems.
Ian.
wonder about being able to fiddle with a 360. An O2/425 would be nice. Orig 400s are too valuable to stick in hobbyist systems.
Ian.
I thought it was anything over 300. Anyone with a 350 MHz PIMM who can check it out?
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mapesdhs wrote:
I figure one couldn't move a 360 core into a 250 module as the cache would be too different, yes?
I have a couple of 360 modules I can expt with. However, I'd need to know a bit more about the multiplier resistor positions to try it.
Ian.
I have a couple of 360 modules I can expt with. However, I'd need to know a bit more about the multiplier resistor positions to try it.
Ian.
I think I might have found your problem with the Octane PM20s upgraded from 250.
It appears that SGI used a 1:1 ratio for the cache for 250 and under, while 300 (at least for Origin) uses 5nS SRAMs for a 200MHz cache clock (2:3). Unless you swap out the setup SEPROM with one that changes the cache timing it seems you're running the 250MHz cache at full processor speed when you bump it up to 350, and I don't think the SRAM has enough tolerance. Note I haven't actually opened up my PM20 yet, so this is mostly conjecture based on documentation and hinvs. 250MHz would require 4nS chips, 300 would require 3.3nS, and 350 2.8nS (for a 1:1 divisor), and my guess is there isn't quite enough headroom in the 250s cache chips. If you have a 2MB dualie and 2MB 300 singlies you can pull the SEPROM and swap that as well and you should be good (a 1MB dual 250 would need a reprogram to deal with the different cache size, as would the chips from the Origin PIMMs w/ 8MB SC).
I so need an EPROM programmer
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ajerimez wrote:
I've got an R10K Impact I2 system that's having issues. Frequent, replicable crashes while browsing certain directory windows on the desktop (non-fatal, the system stays up but the desktop, icon catalog, and file manager windows disappear, and logging-out and back in again restores them). Also, it's suffering segmentation faults and similar errors when starting Maya, the same errors every time. These problems occur identically with fresh installs of both IRIX 6.5.13 and 6.5.22. I've tried several different video board sets, from Solid to High to Max Impact, with no effect.
Oddly enough, the system seems pretty stable otherwise: no kernel panics or crashes when running typical programs, and running the IDE from the boot menu does not reveal any obvious errors. I'd like to read the detailed results of the IDE - is there a way to read them from within IRIX by opening a text file?
Any ideas what this might be? The crashes seem graphics-related but not video-board specific, so I'll try reseating the midplane, but other than that I'm stumped.
Oddly enough, the system seems pretty stable otherwise: no kernel panics or crashes when running typical programs, and running the IDE from the boot menu does not reveal any obvious errors. I'd like to read the detailed results of the IDE - is there a way to read them from within IRIX by opening a text file?
Any ideas what this might be? The crashes seem graphics-related but not video-board specific, so I'll try reseating the midplane, but other than that I'm stumped.
You can run IDE from a serial console and save the output (typescript on UNIX with cu/tip, a number of other options with other terminal emulators).
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You can also keep an eye out for the advisories on other vanilla-esque SysV Unices. The good thing about IRIX is that as an open system you can swap in many of the services from an xBSD or GNU system if something comes up. AFAIK there haven't been any core compromises in a while (kernel errors, libc errors, etc.)
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cb88 wrote: I hope the ZX/Leo documentation gets out of the legal review if it hasn't been forgotten in the oracle takeover... supposedly its been in the queue since 2008.
I wouldn't count on it. The doc project was Sun being nice to the community with pretty much zero chance of ROi, and AFAIK Larry doesn't work that way.
SPARC, like the guy in the M.P. film, isn't quite dead yet. Sun/Oracle are still developing the CoolThreads line, with T3 machines released recently. It isn't HPC, and it isn't going to come back in a workstation, but it's still around and good for some applications.
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zizban wrote: Yes, but no CDE. I should try compiling OpenMotif that why I can drown my sorrows in MWM. And yes, I'm serious.
Why not install the CDE from a Solaris 9/10 release?
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Should only be Motif and the various dt* stuff. I don't have my Solaris with me, but I know it should be possible. I put Openlook stuff on a Sol9 box that way.
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cb88 wrote: Heh... true. But apparently the do have the document and are just sitting on it for no real reason as the hardware is soo old.
Does anyone have any idea of where to find the openGL drivers for the ZX? I have solaris 2.6 installed but it only has XGL and I don't think its acellerated other than supporting DGA. TGS apparently had a "normal" opengl driver for the ZX but I can't find it anywhere.
It costs money to make sure you're not violating any NDAs, and money to have someone scan it, and you're running the risk that there might be some proprietary information in there that could have made you a couple of billion dollars if it were handled right, and you'll be remembered as "the guy who gave it away".
Regarding the ZX/Leo drivers - they should be on the 2.6 disk (last supported version). Look for "leo" packages and install them.
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cb88 wrote: You wouldn't happen to have any *extra* optical mouse mats would you? I have 2-3 optical mice but no pads which leaves me stuck with ball mice X.x.
Note that there are two different optical mouse pads, and which one your mouse uses depends on what mouse it is.
Somewhere there's a PS file that you can print out to get a working optical mouse pad.
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If you have someone with the skills to implement USB block devices on IRIX then they shouldn't have a problem with an AHCI driver, right? Then you just pop one in the PCI or shoehorn. SOL if you have an Indy/Indigo2 or earlier, but...
Granted, I'm so glib because I know I have not the skills to do either, and won't have them anytime soon, for any definition of soon up to and including geologic time. I'm firmly out in userland as far as programming goes, and don't even do much to speak of there.
Granted, I'm so glib because I know I have not the skills to do either, and won't have them anytime soon, for any definition of soon up to and including geologic time. I'm firmly out in userland as far as programming goes, and don't even do much to speak of there.
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For many years AIX has been at the top of the heap in terms of things you could do to tweak the OS without having to restart. Granted, my experience has been with POWER1 and POWER2 hardware, so say more about why the new stuff is trash (I do like to know before I waste money on it, but have been considering a POWER4 for a while to see what IBM's done since '95).
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eMGee wrote: Have you ever used AIX and POWER/PPC systems, or had to deal with IBM's customer support for those?
Haven't had to deal with IBM's support for UNIX, but when I did deal with them (Thinkpad, pre-Lenovo) they were courteous, fast and efficient. Of course you have to pay for that, once the warranty/service agreement ran out they were pretty much none of the above - but then again that's the official policy of most companies. The helpful people who were at SGI support and DEC support were doing that pretty much "under the table".
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smj wrote:
Nihilus wrote:
There is "Trusted IRIX (TIRIX)" for those who needs it, id est governments, educational institutions, banks etc... It's more or less an open secret that it exists and is audited.
I don't think there was any secret involved, there are press releases and white papers about it achieving B1/LSPP certification .
Keep in mind that while I'm sure they still support it for paying customers, Trusted IRIX is likely at most in maintenance mode. The Trusted IRIX Security Admin Guide was last updated in 2003, from what I can find. Still, it might help and could be educational to play with anyway if you can find a copy.
At this point any IRIX is pretty much in maintenance mode, at least de facto maintenance.
For most people you probably aren't going to get too much out of TIRIX that you don't get out of regular IRIX with all the security patches (and a good security setup).
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vishnu wrote: Oh and the original IBM keyboard is indestructible, it's plugged into my 200 MHz Pentium Pro, running Slackware 13.0, doing duty as the firewall between the Internet and my LAN. Numerous NMB keyboards have bit the dust over the period of time that this keyboard has been performing flawlessly. It's built like a Sherman Tank, from the era before the keyboard industry became comoditized...
Must be a Model M. Quite possibly the best keyboard ever made.
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O2 shouldn't need SOG, as it is a fully-capable HD15 "VGA" port.
Make sure you have a working keyboard plugged in to the keyboard port (though most of the time there's still something on the screen even without one). If that doesn't work check the serial port.
Make sure you have a working keyboard plugged in to the keyboard port (though most of the time there's still something on the screen even without one). If that doesn't work check the serial port.
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