Miscellaneous Operating Systems/Hardware

maxxi.desktop wrote: that would be cool!

sure, if just running gmake is all you need, pretty much anyone here can do that. just say the word

Though sourceforge is pretty crappy... you might want to point your homepage URL there to the new site so people find it!

cb88 wrote: Though sourceforge is pretty crappy... you might want to point your homepage URL there to the new site so people find it!

done! thx

You know what would be really okey-dokey-smokey to have ?

A MaXX Live CD. Choose a lightweight "distro" (gag me with a spoon) and create an iso for d-load.

hamei wrote: You know what would be really okey-dokey-smokey to have ?

A MaXX Live CD. Choose a lightweight "distro" (gag me with a spoon) and create an iso for d-load.

Yup, I'd give it a go if that were available.

Several people mentioned they would try it if they could run it in a Virtual Machine. If there is interest I can build a VM template (for Virtual Box or VMware) that can be downloaded for users to test with.

vishnu wrote: I ran 5Dwm as my main desktop for years on Slackware, but the releases after the project was rebranded to Maxx were problematic specific to Motif apps. This would have been with Slackware 13 through 13.37, I have not tried it with 14.0 or 14.1. As I recall the problem was that motif windows would come up black on black, which obviously made it a bit tough to get any serious work done...

Seems to work fine for me on Slackware 14.1 - even integrates in KDM. I'm running this on a lighter system - a Dell Latitude C400 (1.2GHz Pentium 3, 1GB RAM). I think I like it on this laptop!

Hey Maxxi, welcome back!

I'm seeing that the old releases of MaXX Desktop had desktop icons feature: https://tehtable.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fm.png Is it still supported by latest MaXX? If so, how to activate this feature?

Second, having a source code (an open source parts) accessible via web is nice: http://dev.maxxdesktop.co/trac/maxxdesktop/browser But could you please also make a repository backing it accessible to public and post an address to it? (like via 'url' directive in trac: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracRepos ... positories or just by posting repo url somewhere on the MaXX website)
An alternative option would be allowing to download whole repository (not just a single revision) as zip file, but I don't know whether trac added support for this.

Would be nice if you'd also update these open parts to match current MaXX version, but that's another story.

Thanks.

maxxi.desktop wrote:

TeamBlackFox wrote: Sounds like bugs with your particular setup. Maybe if I have some time soon you could give me access to the source repo and I'll see what I can come up with.

that sounds like an idea. BTW, I tried on three different systems.

cheers!

Would PC-BSD be any better? I have been meaning to trying some form of Unix on my desktop machine, I was all set to use Free-BSD but then I was reading about PC-BSD and how it is built off of Free-BSD but has some usability improvements, so now I'm trying to choose between the two. I was going to try getting Motif or CDE running on whichever I chose, have a "more Unix" experience than looking at the same Gnome or KDE desktops that Linux has, but if Maxx is on its way back then I might finally have a Linux that is visually acceptable and I won't have to worry about BSD so much (though I'll still try one along with probably CDE, just can't figure out which one).

I think it would be a great idea to create a repository/PPA for Maxx when it gets to the stable working stage, that would really streamline the installation process, especially if it's (at least initially) only going to be tested/confirmed for a few of the Linux distros. I apologize if I understood the release process incorrectly.

Would PC-BSD be any better?

Desktop or laptop? Desktop seems okay. But out-of-the-box it doesn't seem to support suspend/resume or the trackpad on my ThinkPad T400s (not exactly a recent product...). Other makes/models probably work just fine, but you may want to check first.

No idea if it would make any difference in terms of MaXX support though - PC-BSD doesn't change the fundamentals, just some packaging and the installation process.

hey! back from vacation

the desktop icons were part of an older version of Rox-Filer... The current version sadly crashes all the time at startup. It could be related to the absence of Gnome session data or something like that. To be honest it really bugs me, but I haven't had the time to debug and trace it to the root cause. It's on my todo list for fall. Having said that, that problem would justify to fast track the first version of the 'real' fm-maxx

Unless someone else debugs it and fix it, you will have to wait. sorry!

dukzcry wrote: Hey Maxxi, welcome back!

I'm seeing that the old releases of MaXX Desktop had desktop icons feature: https://tehtable.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fm.png Is it still supported by latest MaXX? If so, how to activate this feature?

Second, having a source code (an open source parts) accessible via web is nice: http://dev.maxxdesktop.co/trac/maxxdesktop/browser But could you please also make a repository backing it accessible to public and post an address to it? (like via 'url' directive in trac: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracRepos ... positories or just by posting repo url somewhere on the MaXX website)
An alternative option would be allowing to download whole repository (not just a single revision) as zip file, but I don't know whether trac added support for this.

Would be nice if you'd also update these open parts to match current MaXX version, but that's another story.

Thanks.

NOTED

ledzep wrote:

maxxi.desktop wrote:

TeamBlackFox wrote: Sounds like bugs with your particular setup. Maybe if I have some time soon you could give me access to the source repo and I'll see what I can come up with.

that sounds like an idea. BTW, I tried on three different systems.

cheers!

Would PC-BSD be any better? I have been meaning to trying some form of Unix on my desktop machine, I was all set to use Free-BSD but then I was reading about PC-BSD and how it is built off of Free-BSD but has some usability improvements, so now I'm trying to choose between the two. I was going to try getting Motif or CDE running on whichever I chose, have a "more Unix" experience than looking at the same Gnome or KDE desktops that Linux has, but if Maxx is on its way back then I might finally have a Linux that is visually acceptable and I won't have to worry about BSD so much (though I'll still try one along with probably CDE, just can't figure out which one).

I think it would be a great idea to create a repository/PPA for Maxx when it gets to the stable working stage, that would really streamline the installation process, especially if it's (at least initially) only going to be tested/confirmed for a few of the Linux distros. I apologize if I understood the release process incorrectly.

That's the plan I am in the process of compiling a list of functionality for the next MaXX releases and I want people to vote and agree. My goal is to start include people in that process and ultimately get c/c++/java coders on board.

maxxi.desktop wrote:

ledzep wrote: Would PC-BSD be any better? I have been meaning to trying some form of Unix on my desktop machine, I was all set to use Free-BSD but then I was reading about PC-BSD and how it is built off of Free-BSD but has some usability improvements, so now I'm trying to choose between the two. I was going to try getting Motif or CDE running on whichever I chose, have a "more Unix" experience than looking at the same Gnome or KDE desktops that Linux has, but if Maxx is on its way back then I might finally have a Linux that is visually acceptable and I won't have to worry about BSD so much (though I'll still try one along with probably CDE, just can't figure out which one).

I think it would be a great idea to create a repository/PPA for Maxx when it gets to the stable working stage, that would really streamline the installation process, especially if it's (at least initially) only going to be tested/confirmed for a few of the Linux distros. I apologize if I understood the release process incorrectly.

That's the plan I am in the process of compiling a list of functionality for the next MaXX releases and I want people to vote and agree. My goal is to start include people in that process and ultimately get c/c++/java coders on board.

Well, I certainly vote for an Ubuntu repository, then. I can't get PC-BSD to cooperate with me/my set-up (I believe it is Grub/ZFS related) so my dream of a Unix desktop still lies with my favorite version, the old SGI desktop I remember from the Impact2s that I used to work with on Linux. I hope there's a good CDE/Motif example to use on Ubuntu as well, would be nice to compare the environments (never used CDE back in the day). But nothing beats 4DWM (or, now 5DWM, haahaha) in my eyes. It still upsets me that SGI never got around to selling/licensing/porting Irix (and its desktop) to Intel CPUs.

maxxi.desktop wrote: As per my agreement with SGI, MaXX can ONLY run on Linux intel . This is the main reason why I couldn't release the source for 5Dwm for example. But again, I am reopening the communication channel with them... will see

Reopening the communication? Do you mean there's still anybody at SGI who ever heard of IndigoMagic? If affirmative, it's really sick that they won't take any measure for allowing future IRIX development within community driven projects (like support us by releasing specification docs or parts of source code not covered by third parties licensing), but on the other hand they'll sue you if you mimic IndigoMagic without a license agreement. I've just one word for this behavior: they're sick.

cesss wrote: If affirmative, it's really sick that they won't take any measure for allowing future IRIX development within community driven projects (like support us by releasing specification docs or parts of source code not covered by third parties licensing), but on the other hand they'll sue you if you mimic IndigoMagic without a license agreement. I've just one word for this behavior: they're sick.

Actually, no. Actually, you are the one who is sick. It's theirs, not yours.

How about if I move into your house ? Free ? Maybe take over one or two bedrooms and the bathroom ? I'll let you use the kitchen once in a while if you ask nicely ...

What's with people these days ?

hamei wrote:

cesss wrote: If affirmative, it's really sick that they won't take any measure for allowing future IRIX development within community driven projects (like support us by releasing specification docs or parts of source code not covered by third parties licensing), but on the other hand they'll sue you if you mimic IndigoMagic without a license agreement. I've just one word for this behavior: they're sick.

Actually, no. Actually, you are the one who is sick. It's theirs, not yours.

How about if I move into your house ? Free ? Maybe take over one or two bedrooms and the bathroom ? I'll let you use the kitchen once in a while if you ask nicely ...

What's with people these days ?

Ownership of a good isn't the factor that determines sickness: Eating a shoe is sick even if you own it. And it's even more sick if you deny that your shoe exists while you continue eating it.

maxxi.desktop wrote: Unless someone else debugs it and fix it, you will have to wait. sorry!

No problem. Running MaXX along with CDE on modern system is a big fun (I prefer MaXX, but CDE is fine too). Thanks for creating a great product!

maxxi.desktop wrote: I tried to get freeBSD 10.1 fully functional on a reliable machine and I keep having issues...

As for supporting anything but Linux, I see no point. Yes, Linux is lesser quality product, than *BSDs are, but vendors of commercial or popular applications are all around Linux, not some BSD. So Linux is the best choice just because of popularity, available software base and hardware support. Its just what could be coupled with MaXX for doing real work!
Same with preference of x86/x86_64 architectures over other ones.

Eric, please don't listen fanboys, look at real state of affairs. I prefer BSD over Linux too, but its just for geeking or tinkering. When it comes to situation when one needs to be on par with real world and real tasks (so to be on par with Windows and OS X), one picks Linux from a wide choice of open source systems.
Sure you may issue just bare minimal 5dwm for example for FreeBSD, but work on a desktop should be concentrated around Linux, to not waste your time and resources. Static linking or providing most of dependencies should allow to last every MaXX issue more without additional maintenance from your side. Also please never kill MaXX If you decide to stop work on MaXX, and it will not run any more on the current systems of that days, please pass your project to Nekochan community on your terms for further development (not sure how to regulate this with SGI though).

Also, why we choose MaXX, while there are a lot of other desktop environments? Because it has a simple, clean interface to work with, fitting into our workflow. Think most of us will say that IRIX Interactive Desktop is the best desktop they have used in their life (wish MaXX had a similar well-picked set of utilities and preference panels, but thats a lot of work to write them!)
It also adds a cool nostalgic factor due its vintage look, recognizable and admirable by artists working on IRIX or knowing what IRIX is.
Most of modern desktops are utter crap.
What makes MaXX and IID a bit obsolete is a lack of tiling support (not sure of static but dynamic indeed). Perhaps a good feature to implement in MaXX to make it superior to IID?

[DISTRO OPINION]As for which distributions support for next releases, in my opinion it should be at least Debian (as it is known as default, de facto distro and it also gave a life to a lot of popular forks) and Ubuntu (again, superpopular default, fork of Debian, with great software support, but controlled by corporation and bloated).[/DISTRO OPINION]

hamei wrote: How about if I move into your house ? Free ? Maybe take over one or two bedrooms and the bathroom ? I'll let you use the kitchen once in a while if you ask nicely ...

Please don't mix meatspace and virtual stuff. They should not chase poor enthusiasts creating replicas of their legacy stuff, unless it negatively impacts on their business.

dukzcry wrote: As for supporting anything but Linux, I see no point. Yes, Linux is lesser quality product, than *BSDs are, but vendors of big commercial software are all around Linux, not some BSD. So Linux is the best choice just because of popularity, available software base and hardware support. Its just what could be coupled with MaXX for doing real work!
Same with preference of x86/x86_64 architectures over other ones.

***snip***

As for which distributions to support, in my opinion it should be at least Debian (as it is known as default, de facto distro and it also gave a life to a lot of popular forks) and Ubuntu (again, superpopular default, fork of Debian, with great software support, but controlled by corporation and bloated).

Debian? Perhaps supporting Red Hat, who controls the direction that Linux moves, and is the enterprise/business option for Linux, would be a better pick? Plus, when it comes to commercial software, what do they target? Red Hat. I'm using your opening argument here. Debian has no real power in the Linux world, as much as their shrinking fanbase would argue otherwise. And Ubuntu, the once great option and hope for Linux to the masses, has no real power either. Red Hat controls, finances, or develops most of the Linux resources (systemd, PulseAudio, GNOME, X.org, LVM, KVM, and udev; just to name a few) and the rest of the Linux world just follows.

Also there is an another trouble for MaXX, as modern unix like systems do slowly adopt Mir and Wayland, and X.org may be phased out at some point of time.

[DISTRO OPINION]

armanox wrote: Debian? Perhaps supporting Red Hat, who controls the direction that Linux moves, and is the enterprise/business option for Linux, would be a better pick? Plus, when it comes to commercial software, what do they target? Red Hat. I'm using your opening argument here. Debian has no real power in the Linux world, as much as their shrinking fanbase would argue otherwise. And Ubuntu, the once great option and hope for Linux to the masses, has no real power either. Red Hat controls, finances, or develops most of the Linux resources (systemd, PulseAudio, GNOME, X.org, LVM, KVM, and udev; just to name a few) and the rest of the Linux world just follows.

Think it may go into distro flame war. I'm not a fan of any or Linux in general, just offering ones tend to be "default" ones. Debian is even preferred as distribution of choice by developers porting Linux kernel onto new architecture. Its stabile, has big package base and hence is a good choice for general audience, its team also has no pressure from corporation like Ubuntu has. But Ubuntu became a synonym to Linux for mainstream people, its uberpopular and since it is a Debian fork, its not a big deal to support both.
All in all, its up to MaXX Desktop author to choice on which distributions to target for new releases of MaXX.

> Perhaps supporting Red Hat, who controls the direction that Linux moves, and is the enterprise/business option for Linux, would be a better pick?

MaXX is not for enterprise/business market (at least in its current form), mere for artists, enthusiasts and lovers of vintage interfaces.
Also which one to pick? RHEL is not free, Fedora is a testing area for first and CentOS is lacking behind.

> Plus, when it comes to commercial software, what do they target? Red Hat. I'm using your opening argument here.

I don't know software (at least end user) which was offered for RHEL but not offered for Ubuntu at same time. Applications vendors are usually target on Linux in general to satisfy more customers, so its not my argument.

> Red Hat, who controls the direction that Linux moves
> Red Hat controls, finances, or develops most of the Linux resources (systemd, PulseAudio, GNOME, X.org, LVM, KVM, and udev; just to name a few) and the rest of the Linux world just follows

You just named questionable creations, like systemd, pulseaudio, udev. At least with systemd, not all alive distributions took it, and mainstream ones had large debates on whether to take it or not. Many are looking into development of own initialization system.
Also you just showed that Red Hat is monopolist and maybe evil company (not sure whether Canonical or Google are better, they just target on different audience). Its good that Linus still shows his claws and protect kernel from corporations bad ideas: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/24 ... alds_rant/

BTW just went for Steam client for Linux from OS X machine and it started to download a *.deb package (so Debian/Ubuntu) without letting me to choose which distribution I use
[/DISTRO OPINION]

dukzcry wrote: You just named questionable creations, like systemd, pulseaudio, udev. At least with systemd, not all alive distributions took it, and mainstream ones had large debates on whether to take it or not. Many are looking into development of own initialization system.
Also you just showed that Red Hat is monopolist and maybe evil company (not sure whether Canonical or Google are better, they just target on different audience). Its good that Linus still shows his claws and protect kernel from corporations bad ideas: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/24 ... alds_rant/

BTW just went for Steam client for Linux from OS X machine and it started to download a *.deb package (so Debian/Ubuntu) without letting me to choose which distribution I use

Also there is an another trouble for MaXX, as modern unix like systems do slowly adopt Mir and Wayland, and X.org may be phased out at some point of time.

Maybe I am pointing that Red Hat is monopolistic and trying to dominate the market . Also, that last once, about Mir and Wayland, worries me a great deal. I still haven't gotten over systemd (actually am avoiding it), and dropped Fedora from my laptop and desktop due to differing views with the Fedora team (Communications have shown (yes, I do contact them) that I am not their target audience).

armanox wrote:

dukzcry wrote: You just named questionable creations, like systemd, pulseaudio, udev. At least with systemd, not all alive distributions took it, and mainstream ones had large debates on whether to take it or not. Many are looking into development of own initialization system.
Also you just showed that Red Hat is monopolist and maybe evil company (not sure whether Canonical or Google are better, they just target on different audience). Its good that Linus still shows his claws and protect kernel from corporations bad ideas: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/24 ... alds_rant/

BTW just went for Steam client for Linux from OS X machine and it started to download a *.deb package (so Debian/Ubuntu) without letting me to choose which distribution I use

Also there is an another trouble for MaXX, as modern unix like systems do slowly adopt Mir and Wayland, and X.org may be phased out at some point of time.

Maybe I am pointing that Red Hat is monopolistic and trying to dominate the market . Also, that last once, about Mir and Wayland, worries me a great deal. I still haven't gotten over systemd (actually am avoiding it), and dropped Fedora from my laptop and desktop due to differing views with the Fedora team (Communications have shown (yes, I do contact them, and used to do pre-release test days, etc.) that I am not their target audience).