The collected works of skywriter - Page 2

lewis wrote: FYI I think it's impossible to build Blender with gcc. The problem is that it needs to link in the GLU library, which brings the SGI C++ library libC with it, which conflicts horribly with gcc's own C++ library, libstdc++. Someone else had similar problems with other things, and as far as I know there's no solution - you can't compile C++ programs that use GLU with gcc on Irix. If anyone knows otherwise, pipe up!


i don't know about the last sources. but up until i quit on it, it was compiling on a pure gcc machine, then something broke.... i forgot what, but i thought it was something with either the build system (blah, had to hack some ugly stuff) or STL crap.
jan-jaap wrote:
gandalf wrote: skywriter has that blender classic project. Imagine blender working on your 4D series, indigo1 or Crimson? wouldn't that rock?
running blender on a skywriter?

Stop teasing me 8)



well the 1.8 version and build system (if you figure it out, and it's not too hard too) do work on those old machines. the point of the classic project was to bring the non-c++ blender core back to 1.8, before all the swizzle-glop-gnu-junior-code(tm) was added. but *bing* cronic lack of time. even worse now.
lewis wrote: I'll try and package it up, or maybe wait for the 2.4 final, if anyone else even cares :)


so, 2.4-pre still compiles with MIPSPro? that would be nice place to fork, before the opengl 1.1+'s inch their way in.

edit: since it really is a pain in the ass to setup a compilation without an external libs CVS site to download them (python lib, jpeg lib, zlib, etc...) from. there are way too many external GNU-ish crutches to make this easy to compile by itself.
GeneratriX wrote: I like them!


He will not eat green eggs and ham, like them, like them, Sam I am!

You really can't put a price on good stuff! :wink:
hamei wrote: If wishes were horses beggars would ride


if apples had teeth, they'd bite back.
like the vi + perl problem; i've installed NO-GUI distributions, and ended up with a dependancy on X11 lib's with emacs. it gets really tiresome after a while. too much freedom can eat up your time! :)
foetz wrote:
GIJoe wrote: i noticed they give away free licenses for impressario as well, is that one still useful? never tried but i'm curious to know how well current laser and inket printers might be supported (being an sgi user for a few years, i somehow guess: none but prehistoric models :D ).


doesn't have to be a loss.
the hp scsi scanners e.g. are terrific.
none of these slim, light usb toys can keep up there.


damn straight. my HP scanjet 5P cranks over the USB ones...
double post removed
By 2010 microprocessors will seem like really old ideas. Motherboards will end up in museum collections. And the whole ecology that we have around so-called industry standard systems will collapse as it becomes increasingly obvious that the only place that computer design actually happens is by those who are designing chips. Everything downstream is just sheet metal. The apparent diversity of computer manufactures is a shattered illusion. In 2010, if you can't craft silicon, you can't add value to computer systems. You'd be about as innovative as a company in the 90's who couldn't design a printed circuit board.


getting back to the original quote; this is more or less a true statement. to paraphrase John Mashey "all computer architectures have devolved into CPU, memory, and the attributes of the ways in which the are connected" at this point, yes you can't do much product differentiation at this level anymore. the falacy of the quote is that real customers that drive the computer industry don't buy these value add chips themselves, they buy them integrated into products the computer people, who can now provide differentiation by determining what those chip vendors produce in terms of 'innovation'. so nothing has really changed, only the scale at which differentiation happens.

of course this is all dwarfed by what product differentiation can be done in the realm of software; where a similar thing has occured. really; how much value do you add to an operating system before you have pleased 80% of the market? not much anymore, everyone has the same basic functionality whether it's IRIX, linux, windows, or macos; it's the applications that are ported to these OS's that sell them now, and their corresponding hardware platform. again nothing has really changed.

so is the original quote valid? yes, in a very general way. but then again at the same scale nothing has changed much since the 60's anyway (if you neglect eyecandy). yes even open source existed back then.

so *yawn* i blew a strut tower mount, bummer. now at least i have an excuse to install my new anti-sway bar end-links, and dual spring rate springs. so maybe my computers are slow, but my car is kickass. i'll blow away gammer on the road.
very nice home setup. your art is interesting as well. very colorful.
josehill wrote: ...so there will probably be at least one lonely IRIX engineer left until then.


he'll probably be outsourced though.
the series III was cool, it ran OS9. my contemporary favorite. oh i forgot to mention my Lynn Drum :)
thanks for keeping at it!
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
uh, why doesn't anyone use the BSD lpr package? works like a champ for me. even with samba. i even use a NeXTstation with a laser printer. it can't get more f*cked up than that.
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
Charles does the current version of blender contain all the advances that were developed in the production of Elephants Dream? dual monitors, sequencer stuff, etc...
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
ka0s wrote:
It seems that the development team is no longer taking SGI hardware into concideration.


the 'development team' never took SGI into consideration; only Ton did, and only when his machine was an indigo2 max impact. it's been the efforts of one of two people cleaning it up enough to compile on IRIX for nearly the last decade that's made it even possible to run on IRIX anymore.

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
way back before blender became peecee heavy, Danial Dunbar made a script & module to use dials and buttons with blender, it would have been easy then to use a space ball as well. I'm afraid we would have to add it ourselves since we seem to be the only ones blessed with superior hardware.

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
the blender development community historically has not been receptive to make any allowances for IRIX. if you want it done you have to get in and do it yourself, and watch it like a hawk because people will unknowingly break it and you'll constantly be fixing things just to stay in place. adding advanced SGI/IRIX features is usually impossible due to the maintenance of the basic IRIX functionality.

this stems from the wildly variable open source framework that requires retooling everything for IRIX; both blender code and development framework.

i ran out of time years ago.


btw Ton forbid any new platform specific features like dials and buttons and spaceballs because they were not portable across platforms. apparently the fact that everything else was like that for IRIX escaped him. by that time he was off IRIX and on the Mac.

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
sgefant wrote:
I don't think an IRIX build is available, so unless you're able to build blender yourself, it probably is easier to wait for blender 2.5...


yeah that way spend all your time trying to port all the development infrastructure build systems and freeware GNU/libtool crap that the open source crowd will change in 2.5.

you'll never get your spaceball that way.

go back to 1.80 when it was simple to build and use.

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
sgefant wrote:
skywriter wrote:
sgefant wrote:
I don't think an IRIX build is available, so unless you're able to build blender yourself, it probably is easier to wait for blender 2.5...


yeah that way spend all your time trying to port all the development infrastructure build systems and freeware GNU/libtool crap that the open source crowd will change in 2.5.

you'll never get your spaceball that way.

go back to 1.80 when it was simple to build and use.


The problem isn't "the open source crowd" changing stuff so that blender won't work on IRIX, it's lack of developers and access to systems.

I'd be more than happy if there was a neko_blender supporting all the nifty features sgi machines provide, but if nobody is writing the code for it, it won't happen.

cheers,
sgefant

PS: don't worry, I'll get my spaceball working


why don't you write code for neko then?
i was involve with blender since 1.23. i'm well aware why the irix blender wasn't getting update because i was the only one doing it. any if you don't remember that then you really don't know what happened. hos tried for a while but lost interest. why don't you ask Ton what happened? read the blender developers list a little more carefully. i offered plenty of systems. NOBODY CARED about maintaining compatibility with IRIX.

if you're not going to help us mr post 2, then piss off back to #blenderchat. we can fix it ourselves if we care.


btw wtf reason do you have for being here for the first time after 8 years of IRIX problems?

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
sgefant wrote:

My main reason was to offer a way to get serial spaceballs working with blender on IRIX. Apparently interest is not as high as I thought.

greetings,
sgefant


sgi suppport is always appreciated. there is only one of us able to commit to compiling the code and donate to the blender foundation or create a nekochan version at any one time (if that). if you can help thank you from everyone here.

a generic method of adapting spaceballs and dials + buttons would be the best. such input applicable to whatever is available to program. in the past it was whatever python could get to, which i believe is significantly enhanced over what daniel had available through the X-window protocol. i believe a simple spaceball implementation is best for object manipulation - but let the imagination fly.

i'm am very impressed with the progress with the progress the blender development team, and the open movie projects have produced. i only wish, if a bit bitterly, that more of it came back to the SGI community for the percentage donated to free the code (by me).

i maintain both windows and linux interests, but SGI is my platform of choice because of the large investment in digital audio i have.

any help is certainly appreciated. what machine did you get, what version of IRIX do you have? most importantly did you get a set of 6.5 base CD's? what spaceball model did you get? have you tried to a MIPS/GCC build? it used to be possible.

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
squeen wrote:
So, you start their app and then any other app change get spaceball input via Xevents sent to it's application window.


this is the way Daniel did it way back when. would be nice to get more direct path though. i remember some problems with window focus etc......

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
give3n the way Ton structured the use of a Netherlands foundation for Blender there shouldn't be a way to by it out. but, i'm not certain.
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
ka0s wrote: Can anyone confirm that the 2.44 version runs 11% faster on a SGI then the 2.45 version.
And does anyone have a clue why this is?


11% faster what?
if it's render time, then suspect the compiler.
if it's graphics performance then SOL.
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
ka0s wrote: I'm very sure that both versions where compiled using MIPSPRO.
And yes 11% faster when rendering .


three things come to mind:
1) is it only a mips architecture slow down, or it is intel as well?
2) the render pipeline has lots of steps, perhaps a default has changed? nuke your .blender directory stuff and try again.
3) there may be an 'enhancement' to the renderer to improve the quality of the image at the expense of more CPU time.

Ton used to spend a lot of time optimizing the renderer, not sure if they're doing that as well as they used to.
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
hamei wrote:
Can't leave out PDP-8's and PDP-11's ... 11's could do some graphics and 8's were sort-of workstation-sized. "Expensive Typewriter", best name ever for a computer program :D


the entire PDP series was done before 1979. at DEC we were totally VAX in the 1980's (but we actually supported stuff for 10 years).

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
kshuff wrote:
What about Data General?


a hodge podge of stuff only they remember.

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
hamei wrote:
skywriter wrote:
the entire PDP series was done before 1979. at DEC we were totally VAX in the 1980's (but we actually supported stuff for 10 years).

Oh, so your sales guys continued peddling the outdated crap to the industrial controller market, eh ? Thanks from all us second-rate citizens !

I still like the PDP-8. It's an okay computer. Reasonably easy to service and you got all the schematics along with it. Nice :)


those machines were entirely appropriate for that market. at the time advances were being made in time sharing systems; the PDP-10, 36 bit architecture popularity was waning as the soon the become standard 32 bit VAX took over until DEC did itself in.

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
dc_v01 wrote:
skywriter wrote:
kshuff wrote:
What about Data General?


a hodge podge of stuff only they remember.

Ah, well, unfortunately they got immortalized :P ... The Soul Of A New Machine got the Pulitzer Prize, so a few more will remember..


yeah too bad. from all the DG people we got, they're not so book-worthy.

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
FWIW a scan has been hidden behind my predator picture for the last 9 years:

http://www.reputable.com/~skywriter/snap.jpg

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
skywriter wrote:
dc_v01 wrote:
skywriter wrote:
kshuff wrote:
What about Data General?


a hodge podge of stuff only they remember.

Ah, well, unfortunately they got immortalized :P ... The Soul Of A New Machine got the Pulitzer Prize, so a few more will remember..


yeah too bad. from all the DG people we got, they're not so book-worthy.


at this mornings meeting all the old dg'er's did was gush about the DG-1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_General-One which was basically a marketing ploy to get DG on every exec's desk. so much for the soul of that machine.

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
Dr. Dave wrote:
Hey, I remember when they came out... screen kinda looked a bit like this, or about as readable as this

Basically the screen was stitched together from regular LCD controllers, and weren't particularly fast in changing pixel states if I remember correctly, which made scrolling rather fun.

I thought the Grid's were the seriously cool examples of laptops back in those days, however.


yup. there are a couple of prototypes floating around here. pretty cool for the time.

where a couple of cute mobiles with touch screens and per-wifi wireless for medical. like a lot of stuff - never took off.

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
anyway so back on topic. i passed up an iris 2000 or 3000 when i went to pick up a 4d/380 up in a warehouse in Lowell. sadly it was missing parts, but she was a fine old rack mount beast!

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
dc_v01 wrote:
skywriter wrote:
anyway so back on topic. i passed up an iris 2000 or 3000 when i went to pick up a 4d/380 up in a warehouse in Lowell. sadly it was missing parts, but she was a fine old rack mount beast!

Recently? How do you find all of this old iron??


nah, this was about 5 years back, at the peak of my power series collection; before i had to get rid of all the crimsons and predators (except the SkyWriter of course).

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
dc_v01 wrote:
Ah, I didn't know you sold out! Those were some of the most amazing basement pictures, I especially liked the crimsons, my favorites...


don't think of it as a sell out really; i didn't dumpster the machines, they went to people that loved them and spent the day taking them apart and fitting them into a van. we had a great time. i don't think they were able to get the predators back together again which is too bad. but they really tried, the intent was there.

i do miss them, i was even thinking of painting them sometime; zebra, giraffe, elephant, panther.

there is one picture of one of my old cats ('allie'; she lived to be 18 years old) in the crimson shots.

Attachment:
crimson-n-allie.jpg
crimson-n-allie.jpg [ 22.01 KiB | Viewed 80 times ]


besides i ended up replacing them with origins and onyx2. i needed room for more modern projects.

the SkyWriter is never leaving me! ever! i am going to be buried in it in the end :) better than a fridge, or a coffee machine i think! the coffin conversion - the true sgi diehard.

_________________
I love my iPad!!!
everything Miyazaki : ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki ) I'm watching conan future boy now. great stuff!

pom poko, and princess mononoko are great too.

i'm hooked on the entire fansub series of Naruto through Shippuden, plus all the movies.

definitely prefer the english subtitled fansub versions of anime to english dub.
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
it would be nice. i bought the "Big Buck Bunny" movie DVD. it came last night, i watched it and i've got to admit they did a really impressive job.

I didn't go to SIGGRAPH this year, but it would have been a movie worthy of the theater showing.
i put creamed corn on my Octane, and.... it didn't work.
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
yay! mine works!

edit: no it doesn't..... i see it in the preview, but not the post. :( i can see other people icons, what am i missing? i don't have anything disabled, and i have 'attach a signature' enabled. even text in the signature isn't working for me now. :confused:

i'm using :Skywriter: of course
[EOM]

_________________
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596
add 2 more:
Samurai 7
Noein
:Skywriter:

DECUS Member 368596