The collected works of dc_v01 - Page 1

regan_russell wrote: isnt no logging/monitoring dangereous..?

Do you click on the "Send Error Report to Microsoft" button, too?
regan_russell wrote:
dc_v01 wrote: Do you click on the "Send Error Report to Microsoft" button, too?

Yes, especially when the code that caused it was mine. ;-)

Oh, wow, that's impressive! (Ever help you out?)

Anyway, I always turn esp off 'cause it seems to speed things up so dramatically. I'm not going to get any support from sgi, and there's pretty much zero security risk on my boxes so it's not "dangerous" not to have added logging/monitoring from that perspective.
tjsgifan wrote: I think all you have to look out for is the Sync On Green capability of the display.

Sort of. Depending on the 13W3 to HD15 adapter you have, you may not need a SOG capable display. You will need at least a SOG tolerant display. Octanes and most other later SGIs do put out separate H/V sync signals on the 13W3 pins, enabling these to be routed to conventional HD15 input displays. However, the SOG signal is still in the green channel, so your display needs to filter this out - several displays seem to do this, or better KVMs (I guess any of them that puts a label like "Computer 1" on the display as you switch). So, if you have a 13W3 adapter which routes/outputs the H/V sync signals, all you need is a SOG tolerant display. Unfortunately, this capability is not advertised. I think most newer displays should work, but some people seem to have issues. The key is to have the adapter which enables this. These adapters tend to be more expensive. You can check with an ohmmeter - 13W3 pins 4 & 5 should route to HD15 pins 13 & 14 respectively, I think. There are cheap Sun adapters which do not route the H/V sync signals from SGIs - these will require a SOG capable monitor. If you are sure you have a SOG monitor and the adapter doesn't work, break off all the other pins in the 13W3 connection except for the 3 big coax connections - something else is being routed wrong and messing things up, but all you need are the RGB channels for a SOG system to work.
Grummz wrote: Oh great! Thanks for replying to this thread. I reposted the question to the other thread...oh well.

Didn't SGI have a 19 inch LCD that was 4:3 aspect ratio?

Yes, F190
unixmuseum wrote:
Timberoz wrote: For one it might see some new software come to the platform. Or better still support stay for some of the older products that left. Maya, Discreet apps just to name a few.

Or see ongoing development for existing ports.

You'd get all this by porting IRIX to x86?!?!?! How??? I know IRIX is pretty magical, but it will be able to turn old MIPS binary into shiny new x86 code?

Porting IRIX to x86 was a good idea. Like in the late nineties, when it was obvious that they wouldn't be able to continue to compete with Intel/AMD on performance. They then could have been first out of the block with 64bit Opteron machines. Software vendors were still supporting them, Linux hadn't yet established as strong a foothold. Apple has successfully managed these types of transitions twice - and that's what has kept them alive today. If SGI had done this.......

But it's too late now.....
Frapazoid wrote: So they went for the workstation market head on specifically. That's like attacking a walled city; not recommended.

They should've went the other route and got into consumer graphics. .

What makes you think that if they couldn't compete with commodity workstations they could compete with commodity graphics?

The company fundamentally isn't capable of competing in commodity anything - their business practices and model just won't support it. IRIX on x86, if done at the right time, could've kept people buying professional workstations. Some people still do - IBM, HP, SUN all offer some form of professional workstation, but the market isn't really big and they aren't that much better. The whole problem with the commodity vs. professional workstation wasn't the price - it was the fact that the commodity worksations were actually faster ! Now, plenty of people wiould have been willing to pay for the advantages of professional gear if they had kept pace with the commodity hardware, never mind if the prof. kit was even faster.....
cybercow wrote:
Indy is good only for non-textured games like Battalion and the SGI flight simulator demo

anybody knows is the SGI flight simulator demo downloadable from somewhere ? url or something ? i googled the web and not found anything about it. it maybe comes with Irix installation ? (i still not have cd`s)

I haven't seen it downloadable anywhere. It is on the early 6.5 applications CDs - at some 6.5.x it was moved to a separate demo CD, buy I'm not sure when that happened.
deBug wrote:
On the other hand maybe professional IRIX users actually USE their SGI boxes instead of playing around with them.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that most SGI boxes were used to run only a single app, and pretty much dedicated to it. So having lots of fancy icons wasn't a real big concern, given the number of programs they actually used...
squeen wrote: Man I'm been batting zero lately with this Tzero!

Sounds like you need someone to take it off your hands, cheap.

Rid yourself of these problems...
dj wrote: Couple of notes:
* Graphics hardware with texturing is now required to run the flipbook player.

Is there a way to download the older version so you could run it on hardware without texturing? I didn't find it on the site...
nekonoko wrote: Sure, the previous versions are all on the Sourceforge downloads page . If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you'll see '+' next to 0.6.1 Beta and 0.6.0 beta - just click on the '+' to show the download list for that version.

Hmm, so, is my excuse that my monitor is locked to 800x600? Or the default "open in new window" is 640x480? Or that in either case, I'm incapable of seeing/using a scroll bar? I swear it wasn't there before!

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, neko, some of us seem to need it sometimes...
nekonoko wrote:
shyouko wrote: my first programming language learnt was LOGO.

Yep, that's a pretty good one to start with too - an easy to read structured language based on Lisp. I can package Berkeley Logo 5.5 for IRIX if anyone wants to try it.

Does it support turtle graphics? This is fun info - I had no idea I had learned "an easy to read structured language based on Lisp." It's a toss up whether I encountered LOGO or BASIC first - really too long ago for me to remember much about either.
nekonoko wrote: Yes, it supports turtle graphics. The project page is here:
Here's a shot of it running on my Fuel:

Cool! But hazy memories come back - I'm sure I must have learned some BASIC first, on a Commodore Pet (with a membrane keyboard!) or maybe a TRS-80, before LOGO (C-64/AppleII era, maybe a Vic20)
Oskar45 wrote:
Since there's nothing in the sample pic which couldn't be done with Radiance, I'd like to learn why you dismissed Radiance for your job.

I think he answered that - he didn't think Radiance would work real-time. After my quick glance at the site I didn't think it was really aimed at that either. But if you know someone running it at 30fps, that might be interesting to a lot of people. I didn't really see that in my look at their archives, but didn't try too hard either.
It sucks the same as all the other versions. I'm not 100% sure if I've used 13, but I think 12 on IRIX. Maybe 13. I don't think "AutoCAD" and "modelling" belong in the same sentence. That said, it has its place, it's very handy for some kinds of drawings, determining angular relationships, laying out optics, for example. I don't really remember any significant differences between platforms for AutoCAD, pc/unix were fairly equivalent.
cybercow wrote:
It sucks the same as all the other versions.
humm ... i don`t think so, because it`s an industrial cad standard indeed ...

hehe, was, was an industrial standard - well, ok, it's still used for 2D. Look, when it came out in the early '80s, it was revolutionary, became a standard. And if you learned that version, you can still use the program today, in the same way. See the problem?

It's quite capable for a lot of 2D tasks, which there are still many. But when they first added 3D, it was basically allowing you another dimension to draw your lines, there weren't any primitives or other features. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But I'm biased from my engineering background, where having parametric capabilities is a big advantage. For other applications, that's not as important, and it's lasted longer there - architecture is apparently one.

Also, sucking is not incompatible with being a standard. Happens all the time.
I don't think "AutoCAD" and "modelling" belong in the same sentence
? constructing wired 3D architectural objects from plain views, before exporting them to some powerful animation / rendering tool it`s a quite standard task for acad ...

I still basically stand by my statement, although your right that it is a task done by acad. But if your used to another 3D "modelling" package, I think you'll be disappointed. You're looking for experiences, right? 3D is not the forte of 12, or 13. But generally, Autodesk has add-ons that will make your task at hand easier - whether it is architectural or mechanical or electrical, and those make a difference. However, all the unix versions I came across were "vanilla" autocad, or maybe had some 3D mechanical extensions. I don't know if any architectural versions were there for unix. If your modelling background was 3D "graphics" (surfaces, Maya, etc), you'll probably find acad a bit more livable than if your background was 3D mcad, where solids, parametric features are more essential. But I still don't think you'll like 13 that much for 3D. Later versions add more 3D capabilities. But I haven't used it's 3D features in years, it's strictly a 2D package for me.
skywriter wrote:
kshuff wrote:
What about Data General?

a hodge podge of stuff only they remember.

Ah, well, unfortunately they got immortalized :P ... The Soul Of A New Machine got the Pulitzer Prize, so a few more will remember..
skywriter wrote:
anyway so back on topic. i passed up an iris 2000 or 3000 when i went to pick up a 4d/380 up in a warehouse in Lowell. sadly it was missing parts, but she was a fine old rack mount beast!

Recently? How do you find all of this old iron??
skywriter wrote:
dc_v01 wrote:
Recently? How do you find all of this old iron??

nah, this was about 5 years back, at the peak of my power series collection; before i had to get rid of all the crimsons and predators (except the SkyWriter of course).

Ah, I didn't know you sold out! Those were some of the most amazing basement pictures, I especially liked the crimsons, my favorites...
TeeTylerToe wrote: what advice doe people have on recording uncompressed? 720x486? the default is 640x480. should I use quicktime, or .mv? interlaced? 422 rather then apple24, or what not?

If I recall, you should record NTSC at 640x480 or PAL at 720x512. There may be a spec you see that shows more "lines" for NTSC, etc, but that's to accommodate overscan in the signal, you don't need to digitize it. If someone wants to pipe in otherwise, they may actually have experience - I'm just going from reading. Note that NTSC and PAL have aprox. the same bandwidth, the higher res in PAL is offset by a lower field rate.
Certainly a nice, well done job - but I've never really understood the huge objection to the roller balls. Sure, you gotta clean them every so often. I only used these until a month ago, when I got this nice MS optical piece of crap. The optics doesn't bother me, but the middle mouse button (under the wheel) only functions 20-30% of the time. I'm not sure if this is a design flaw (feels like it could be the driver) or if this is a problem just with this unit. Right now I manage by programming the two side buttons to be a middle mouse button, but it'll take a while to undo years of training (my main app makes extensive use of it).

FWIW, one of the earlier Logitech MouseMan designs used a very lightweight ball. I thought these functioned much better, with the lighter weight they didn't seem to pick up the dust and put them on the rollers - you could go years without cleaning. But I guess they thought people liked the feeling of heavier roller balls....
So, I'm cleaning up some machines I picked up/saved recently, getting ready to try to get rid of them (I don't need any more Indigo 2s!) when I notice they have a lot of nodelocked licenses, permanent or expiring in 2038 (Why not just make them permanent? Do they expect a flood of license revenues 40 years later?). I'm not familiar with all of them - do they make these machines worth keeping? Normally I like the old SGI apps, better than current FOSS, but I think FOSS may have these covered...

Cosmo stuff (Code, Color, Create, Create 3D, Worlds) - Anything useful here? What commands would start up these programs?
WebSpace Author
WebMagic Pro
WebMagic Author
Prodev Workshop
PCP Collector, PCP Monitor
InPerson - pretty sure this obsolete?
Annotator - too old as well?
Workshop Pro MPF
XLV XFS Plexing - Mirroring? Somewhat unneeded on a 10MB/s I2?
Mineset Server,Client

Basically, is there anything here that's GUI based, really shows off an SGI? Commandline tools may be plenty powerful and useful, but I'm unlikely to really use them as playtoys. I suspect some of the Cosmo*,Web* stuff may be GUI based, but that nekoware/freeware have FOSS alternatives that are just as good. Or maybe not. Something I should check out? I'm mostly familiar with CAD/CAE software under IRIX, I think this these are more web/software development tools that I don't know too much about...
jan-jaap wrote:
dc_v01 wrote:
expiring in 2038 (Why not just make them permanent? Do they expect a flood of license revenues 40 years later?).

The world will end in 2038. Or at least, 32bits time_t (seconds since 1/1/1970) will overflow.

Yeah, I remember reading about that, the next Y2K bug. But since you can apparently make them permanent, it did seem kinda lazy to just make them the largest int you can fit.
josehill wrote:
dc_v01 wrote:
InPerson - pretty sure this obsolete?

An IRIX-only video iChat. Way, way ahead of its time. Cool to play with if you have enough machines and IRIX geeks on a local net.

Is this what they used in Disclosure ? Unfortunately, these machines don't have video - and since the license is nodelocked, it's not moving to my machines that do.

josehill wrote:
dc_v01 wrote:
Mineset Server,Client

Very interesting early GUI-based exploratory data analysis suite. Could still be worth some money to people.

Thanks! If it can make pretty charts/graphs, that would be cool. I assume it's still installed on the machine, or it's likely I have the disks to install it. I'll try to check it out this weekend. Hopefully is starts up easily enough with a command like mineset? It's not always obvious to me how to get some of the larger software packages started, you need to run a script with an obscure name that does 20 things to get it going, the binary with the package name doesn't do the trick.

josehill wrote:
The pcp stuff could be interesting for folks who admin larger (challenge/origin) boxen.

Yeah, I didn't think it would be that useful on a lowly I2.

Thanks for the on-topic info! ;)
dc_v01 wrote:
Thanks! If it can make pretty charts/graphs, that would be cool. I assume it's still installed on the machine, or it's likely I have the disks to install it. I'll try to check it out this weekend. Hopefully is starts up easily enough with a command like mineset?

Well, it does start up with mineset. But not without some doing. It seems only the compilers are installed, the others are just the licenses. But I have a lot of CDs, MineSet 2.6 installed and started up, made some pretty pictures from the examples - but it'd take some doing to figure out how to process my own data.

So next problem - on to Cosmo, not installed either. Seems to be a collection of web and VRML editors. CosmoCreate supposedly replaces Webmagic, which makes that license way old, since there were versions of Cosmo for 5.3. Now, my "Cosmo Suite August 1998" cd has dist (6.2?) dist6.3, dist6.4, and dist6.5 dirs. Pointing the software manager at dist says no compatible software to be installed. Pointing it at 6.5 lets you install CosmoCode, CosmoWorlds, some other stuff. But there are conflicts - they need cosmocreate.sw.base installed, some other cosmocreate stuff, too. But there isn't any cosmocreate stuff in dist6.5 - but there is in every other dir!!! (None of which it wants to read) Was CosmoCreate bundled with 6.5 on some other CD?!?! I don't recall seeing it before. I checked the "Webforce" CDs, but they seem to be server stuff. Or does this need some rulesoveride check to install another (6.2?) version? Seems odd that there would be a version in every other dist!
QuicksilverG4 wrote: There is no SGI solution that's as easy and no where near as cheap.

Well, I've bought the A/V modules for that O2 for $15, so you could do it on the SGI, but the "easy" part would be a matter of opinion. (And the A/V module is supposed to be pretty sensitive to the tape quality). The Mac is a better solution just from the availability of more modern software tools. But if you like a retro feel....
ajerimez wrote:
narcissism... Are Japanese girls any different?


But in general I would try to avoid catagorizing based on cultural/ethic differences and instead focus on individuals, who will come in all shapes/sizes/demeanors/psychologies regardless of where they came from. Your current sample size, for instance, appears to be one. However, if for some reason you are thinking of finding some submissive or subservient Asian women based on stereotypes, I believe you will find yourself sorely mistaken...
I think you're running into a problem which is a fundamental difference between a CAD package (Pro/ENGINEER, Solidworks) and a 3D modelling package (Maya, 3DS Max). You're issue is trivially simple to fix on any real CAD program - you need to set "Hidden Line Removal" (there are a couple of options for this usually, as well as fast/quality settings for your display) and some options for the display of tangent edge intersections. 3D modelling packages aren't normally used to print blueprints to paper and probably don't have these options (but I'm not a user of them, so hard to tell). I would think your best bet is to export them in a compatible format (likely DXF/DWG, but I'd use STEP or IGES if you can. Actually I'm not sure DXF/DWG will preserve the surface data you need, they might not work.) to a real CAD application. Unfortunately, the open source/free CAD programs I know of are all 2D (QCAD), and you need a 3D application. I've only used higher end packages, but there are some relatively inexpensive packages (TurboCAD? something like that...) that retail for $150, $200 or so that might meet your needs for import/print.

FWIW, making prints has always been one of the weaker points of even 3D CAD programs. My old favorite CAD modelling program, I-DEAS, used to have a completely different program for drawings. You'd have this wonderful model, then you'd click an icon to set up the views, then BOOM, IDEAS would shut down, and then this shitty drawing program would start up with a completely different user interface, and yes, you'd have to muck around a bit with the hidden lines. I hope they fixed that at some point - I haven't used it in more than 10 years. Modern programs are much better. And IDEAS is dead.
GeneratriX wrote:
To get back on-topic, it seems there are no cheap userland solutions either for IRIX or LINUX to help on this subject... right? It seems TurboCAD only runs with Windows/MacOSX.

Yes, people who could afford SGIs usually could afford to pay for software, so no low cost alternatives. :( Open source doesn't seem to have made a 3D CAD application yet, only 2D. The only 3D apps are modeling apps like Blender.

GeneratriX wrote:
An hour ago I've tried to set the BlenderCAD render engine to use Toon Edge Enhance, to increase the contour detail from perspective viewport. It works amazingly well for some models, more specifically if you set the textures to null and materials to a neutral gray color; but again, it does not solves my problem. It only makes a few more lookable either global or exploded views.

Yep, this is a characteristic of viewing a 3D model. CAD apps let you put "views" to "paper" for making drawings . And you start to deal with "lineweights" or even "pens" - back to the good old pen plotters of the old days, still supported! (Even though everyone uses inkjets now!)

GeneratriX wrote:
I'll take a look at BlenderCAD to see if there is no chance to remove hidden lines. You know, BlenderCAD is a just blender with a set of plugins/patchs to help a bit with some tasks... but this is what I have now! :)

I wasn't familier with it, I thought you were just referring to the modeling interface of Blender...
Thanks for the software lists, Diego, there's some I'd not seen there before!
BRL-CAD exists for IRIX (maybe only the older versions, haven't looked in a while) but unfortunately I think they focused on modeling as well, and there isn't much/any drawing support. That's just my impression, though, I've never used it. The FreeCAD software looked interesting - it's new, can't tell if the drawing package is working yet, but at least they're planning on it. Of course, win/linux only - but don't you have some mad C++ skillzz? Maybe you want to tackle an IRIX port? :)

theinonen wrote:
Do you require 3D CAD? Many 2D CAD programs have primitive 3D drawing tools for drawing in perspective and creating isometric views.

I think the issue is he already has the stuff modeled in BlenderCAD that he probably doesn't want to start over - and if you've been doing 3D, would you really want to go back to 2D even if it works?
hamei wrote:
I would personally hunt for a copy of Cadkey 7 for DOS on fleabay or elsewhere. Should be very cheap. It was the best wireframe 3D cad program ever and I think you could get it to run in Softwindows. You could import your dxf's from Blender into Cadkey and print from there.

A wireframe app would still be a bit of a headache, though, in the sense that you would still need to manually clean up all your hidden lines to display how you want them, wouldn't you? Or does .dxf/.dwg preserve some surface data that would allow automatic hidden line processing? That's why I was recommending STEP, to preserve the surface data. The last time I did any wireframe it was the mid'90s or so, maybe AutoCAD 12, I don't remember a thing...
Nice find! There's another thread here with a link to similar/same material, I think it went into more detail of the process (or maybe one of links off of that page has it.) I think pentium may have posted it...
yungjoon wrote: Many thanks for your replies.

I have an adapter I used formerly with my sun ultra30. Strangely, I used it with my Octane/19"CRT without any problem.

Sometimes, I see adapters on ebay but I can't know if they can do with my LCD monitor.

Yes, it's very difficult to find the proper adapters, and know what you're getting for sure.

yungjoon wrote: Hey, if someone has a spare adapter to sell, I am interested !

International shipping might be an issue, but Greg Douglas at Reputable Systemes sells them. also appears to be the right one.
cybercow wrote:

Great to see their website back up! This used to be the place I recommended most highly. I had great results with their adapters (solved all my KVM problems) and bought in bulk. However, other people here had complained that their service was non-existent and never got the adapters they ordered. The website had been down for more than a month. I would email and confirm that they are back in business before ordering anything (and they operate an eBay store where the prices are cheaper!), or order from the other sites I listed earlier.
Backrupt and bought..
25 million? Should've bought them myself.

They had seemed like they might make a move back towards workstations - but being bought by Rackable...
The Keeper wrote:
Interesting, you don't have Squirt down there in VA, eh? I seriously doubt it's specific to the Buffalo area, but maybe it's a northeast thing?

I found it much more common in CA than in VA, myself, but definately not just NorthE.

I was actually going to say "someone still drinks that?" Haven't seen it in years...but not looking for it, either.
hamei wrote:
And NO USB !!!

Guess SGI has got that one covered....

Why has everyone been complaining about the security features of IRIX?
Unfortunately the "on board Ethernet" support project for Octanes and Origins makes it sound substantially less useful than it could be.....
foetz wrote: mips3?

Maybe you were out too long. SAQ does MIPS3 nekoware builds.
Pontus wrote:
Holy smokes, a decent ISP seems expensive in the states. I guess it goes up a bit when you want a fixed IP and run a lot of traffic, but still.

Most people are pretty satisfied with a 15MBps dl connection for ~$500/yr. Neko isn't most people. I'd say the cost goes up more than a bit!