The collected works of TeamBlackFox - Page 8

diegel wrote: What do you want with the Irix source? We are not able to port a current firefox version to Irix , do you really think we have the skills to do serious kernel hacking? The open source community folks have the skills but I am sure this will end in another Linux distribution. I am very happy that we don't have a systemd discussion at this place.

If I had the a port of IRIX to x86, I would have it under KVM on SmartOS in a heartbeat. I like IRIX that much that I would be willing to use it, no matter its completeness, on a modern system. Frankly as much as I dislike x86 these days, I don't have a choice for modern shit.

alexott wrote: IRIX correlates more with *BSD than with Linux. So I expect *BSD folks to take over this. And there is nothing to afraid then, as they know how to do sane quality things.

A lot of fans of IRIX are now in the BSD communities. Frankly, I use Linux, and I fail to see how Linux has anything to do with system V. I think at the end of the day the illumos or BSD guys are more likely to be interested than Linux users, with Kumba and other Gentoo-MIPS devs a glaring exception.

foetz wrote: as diegel said already irix is an svr4 derivate hence not bsd related despite having a few bsd based programs (as all do). the important point however is what would happen then? thinking of what happened in similar cases in the past parts are likely gonna be stripped out and more or less silently merged into existing linux versions as happened to xfs or chkconfig.

that wouldn't make any serious difference tho because the main problem is somwehere else: for as long as there's no professional segment for desktop machines again the toys and bling bling brainfarts will always have the upper hand and wasting parts of irix for that - no thanks

While I agree with you on the professional workstation market being a figment of the past, I disagree. GNU/Linux users especially seem to hate the commercial UNIXes especially, the only ones interested in IRIX being open sourced are the BSD and illumos communities, outside of those here.


In any case, I did not share Jorge's email to beg for the source to be released - rather, because I'm desperate to see IRIX be legal for free distribution of some kind. I hate this sneaky shit I have to go through - whenever I see a post by a member wanting a set of IRIX disks, I have to be quick to PM and reach out to them so I can get them the media. Besides torrent sites ( which are full of non-interested parties ) there's nowhere we can discuss this in the open - it isn't good for us, or Rackable. And frankly, releasing the IRIX source is more likely than to get a working SGI system emulator anytime soon - which speaks volumes about the likelihood of the latter.

Kumba wrote: I think you need to talk to more GNU/Linux users. Especially the older, more seasoned ones. Stay away from the young hotshots, and you'll find your subjective analysis will gain some objectivity.

I personally would like to get some time on an AIX, s390, or even a zOS box. I also want to play with the obscure UNIXen like NEC's SUPER-UX (for their SX-9 systems), Cray's UNICOS, and whatever Honeywell has current. I think they still cook up supercomputers periodically... Throw in hunting down QNX and UnixWare 7.1.4 installs at some point. I'm not saying I'll ever master any of those, but being able to spend a few hours dorking around with them, likely breaking an install? I'd love to.

Already have met countless GNU/Linux guys and gals - you're by far the friendliest and most pro-social of them. I get insulted because I don't advocate their "free software" agenda it seems - I realistically see that all software must coexist in order to be successful. Many GNU/Linux users of all ages share the anti-proprietary sentiment, and it seems to be growing.

Speaking of AIX - when I get Jigoku-Karasu webfacing, you are free to play with it.

Kumba wrote: This isn't something unique to software development. It's a core function of life. Adapt, or die. IRIX has many useful things internally that Linux might be able to emulate (it could never copy due to license differences). The release of the Solaris code and ZFS spurred and influenced the development of btrfs, for example. On the BSD-side, I'd imagine a lot of the hardware bits would get sucked up from IRIX so as to improve support on old SGI gear.

I'd be the first to start revitalizing IRIX if the source was released. Between illumos, and the BSDs, there's plenty of code to patch any holes left behind, because there are definitely original parts to the IRIX kernel - the pieces that are IRIX-original I imagine would give us all the references we would need to develop "OpenIRIX" or something.

Kumba wrote: Oh, and throw GNU/Hurd in the list of UNIX-like OSes to try out. I'm certain that'll be able to boot to a basic shell prompt before the heat death of the Universe, so I'll have to try that out as well.

Pardon me if I find this funny, but I've used Hurd, Debian GNU/Hurd specifically. Its absolutely nothing special - I'd have more fun trying to jack off a bull.

Last call, anyone? Before I give up hope and buy new 256MB modules, because my Octane fried the old ones I had >.>

No, my Octane is Sakuya and not Hannibal Lecter for a reason.

Alright got the C8000 to boot, but.. its not recognizing any HDDs I put in. I'm using an 80-pin to SCA adapter to connect a Fujitsu SCSI which I have confirmed works fine. I've already forced the SCSI ID to both 0 and 1, its not doing it. Do I need to terminate all of the leads on the SCSI ribbon or something?

Glad you got it working. I needed the space but intend to upgrade my O300s to O350s eventually.

Getting some standard 80 pin disks instead so this should resolve the issue.

68-pin I mean I get the disks confused all the time.

So I thought long and hard, and I got a Fuel I just finished building, so I'm selling my Octane2. I had a motherboard fail and take 2GB of RAM with it, struggled to find 512MB or 1GB modules, so yeah, I'm not interested in building it out anymore.

Specs:

2x R14000A 600MHz
256MB RAM ( only sticks I had on hand )
V12 with DCD
73GB 10k HDD, 18GB 15k HDD
DAT Drive
PCI cage ( Can include CADDuo card for free )

Its in good shape with nice skins.

Weight is about 70lbs. Price is $950, negotiable though. Shipping is from ZIP 23222

No, the PSU is fine! The MB just died suddenly, spared the CPU, but killed itself and the RAM.

> I am interested in the DCD only.

This is the second time I"ve had to explain to you how rude it is to ask someone to part out a complete system when they're selling it as a unit. I'm *NOT* parting this out, and you should take a hit from the way things are here.

uunix wrote: I want the power cord!

Very funny. You at least are just joking.

Well Mopar made me an offer I couldn't pass up.

Very difficult. Linux and NetBSD are two totally different OSes, and MIPS is historically not well supported on Linux. Also, you won't be able to on a modern MIPS system anyways as IRIX is big-endian oriented, your Linux-MIPS system is more than likely little endian. So no, no way at all.

rwengerter wrote: Yes, I have. It has 4 GBit/s Fibrechannel ports and GBit Ethernet ports. I am pretty sure that there are
no available drivers for these ports if I would try to use NetBSD. I would therefore lose these ports
even if I would be successful in installing NetBSD.

Uhh I don't know what you're on, but NetBSD does have Fibrechannel and gigabit ethernet drivers for common chipsets. That being said, sounds like you're having an excuse to avoid BSD - which is your own business, but I doubt you'll have the patience and skill to adapt the NetBSD binary emulation layer for GNU/Linux. Maybe ask one of the Linux/MIPS guys like Kumba or ivelegacy, but beyond that, you're SOL, my friend. IRIX binaries which are dynamically linked will not run without having their libs copied over, and the IRIX kernel is mostly not well documented, so good luck with this project.

Still have 4 caddies! Get them while they're here.

gijoe77 wrote: oh hey great swap!! Congrats and welcome to the Tezro club

Indeed. Cannot wait until she arrives. I've already decided I'll call her Byakuren.

I bailed on the IRC channel - lots of trolling and circular conversations - nothing fun in the least.

Install Discreet products under separate users from your main account

Still interested in one.

ivelegacy wrote: It's Itanium inside, and I do not like the Itanium architecture, also, what about Applications ?
IRIS has interesting Apps, absolutely
HPUX may have interesting Apps, hard to find, and … reduced set (Catia is existing, btw, so I may be fine)
but what about Itanium ?


Also, It has EFI in its firmware: it gets no love from me, definitively

Your opinions aren't welcomed in my want to buy threads - that's not polite.

HP-UX runs on Itanium. Haven't you heard of the ZX2000 and ZX6000?

EFI is fine, UEFI is the problem.

Goodbye, MaXX Desktop, and good riddance.

I figured since I'm amping up with my Tezro and Fuel now, it is about time to announce a few things I want to port to IRIX, and this will serve as my development log thread.

You're free to suggest programs, but understand a few limits:

Simply state the program and a link to its website. Verify first it is written in C, and do not suggest compilers - I will not even try those as I'm not *that* skilled.

I do not know C++ and do not care to. Do not ask me to port C++ based software - not gonna happen anytime soon.

I will show a preference for BSD/MIT software, so if possible, ask for those.

Priorities are first on getting them to compile using MIPSPro, if not I will fall back to GCC.

Patches for MIPSPro are welcomed.

Any patches or changes I do will be published.

For the time being, I will only be doing build system patches to get them to build, and maybe a tarball. Once I get a whole suite of tools going under the /usr/local preference ( BSD-guy here, so that's why I do that ) I'll also assist and do stuff for Nekoware devs, as I do support those efforts.

mksh - the MirBSD Korn Shell - Builds under MIPSPro, no extra stuff needed. Tarball available below
tmux - BSD-licensed, better alternative to screen - built libevent successfully under MIPSPro, TMUX still needs work
btpd - Bittorrent Daemon
Eterm - Enlightenment Terminal

Will this replace OpenSSL or does it have an API difference?

mksh built! Tarball above.

I have an Alpha now, just started a TMUX port to IRIX, libevent built for me without OpenSSL support ( gonna need to wait for Armanox to open that can of worms, as it wants a new OpenSSL version )

IRIX. I'll screw with libevent on OSF/1 when I have the time

I'll look at implementing a va_copy function then when I go to do it.

jimmer wrote: Also, from what little I understand and/or know from hardware, it seems to me that SGI MIPS CPU's are significantly different from the modern MIPS designs making it non-trivial/impossible to use modern MIPS compiler back-ends to generate code for older SGI MIPS CPUs.

People who actually know what they are talking about might want to correct my statement though.

Its actually because modern MIPS ABI and CPUs expect little endian primarily.

On that note, screw Open64. Its dead. If someone wants a modern compiler for IRIX, build a MIPS backend for PCC.

Hey can you guys take the peanut gallery commentary about ADA, Pascal, etc elsewhere? I'm not trying to be rude, but I'd like to keep the thread tidy so I can look at people's suggestions easily and keep it organized.

foetz wrote: well you asked for it

Thats not a free-for-all for tangential discussion, and you know that!

Its fine for people to suggest programs but the thread's topic should not have the scope drifted into off topic. I was politely asking for people to do their best to keep the off-topic chatter out of the thread, which means I get my work cut out for me on the relevant discussion.

On the topic of the thread I'm going to look into the following suggestion: Xtend, but I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on it due to being GPLv3. If it builds out of the box or with minor hacks, so be it, but if it doesn't build, nope.

On another note, neko_gcc47 doesn't want to play nice so I'll have to build it too >.>

On the subject of what I will do with this - I have a few NetBSD devs interested in bringing support to it. That, combined with its x86 compatibility, will make it a fun platform to mess with. Would also like to see about hacking Montecito CPUs into it one day... maybe.

Itanium SGIs do blow the circuits of any MIPS SGI you put up against them - there's literally no performance contest.

diegel wrote: What's wrong with neko_gcc47? It works without any problem here.

For some reason it doesn't want to generate binaries no matter how may times I install it from the tardist. Regardless,, I can build it as there's a wiki guide.

strong_epoxy wrote: Sound's like TeamBlackFox is a leader, not a do'er. Perhaps he should start a new site that'll allow him to bark orders at willing volunteers.

I'm generally a leader but more than capable of doing this sort of stuff. I just maintain a serious standard when I'm trying to keep a thread on topic - from my old moderation days over at a few sites.

diegel wrote: There must be something wrong with your installation. Why should gcc work everywhere but not an your systems? The problem can't be the gcc package itself and I am sure a rebuild will not solve your problem.

Before you start to build nekoware packages it is a good idea to rebuild existing ones. And please read nekoware release notes, there are lots of tips and workarounds in it and of course sample build environments.

I'm not building for Nekoware. I'm building for IRIX in general, first. If my efforts allow a nekoware contributor to expand Nekoware, good for them, if I know a workaround or a hack, I'll share it, but no, I'm not using a Nekoware environment which I am *sure* is part of the issue with neko_gcc47. I'll rebuild GCC using a full bootstrap and link it to /usr/local.

I'll be going back to coding sometime next week, had some various things happen ( exams, car overheating, got a new one etc.)

Also, Armanox I found this: http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_ ... 0-Released

Hey man,

If you get the offer you want on this and they ask to ship, you will need to take all the plastics, bubblewrap and reinforce with cardboard/styrafoam pieces to prevent flexing, take all the expansion cards, drives, and pack them in ESD and more styrafoam. Should take quite a few hours, and as a friend of mine was paid at a pack and ship place around $30/hour when he did packaging for stuffs, I'd charge by the hour, personally, in addition to shipping costs. The chassis will likely best be shipped freight, the other stuff should be divided into three packages and shipped via ground with FRAGILE and full insurance of all boxes, you should pre-prepare from a vendor like Mashek what he would charge for a system, including a sample invoice, so that you have proof for any possible claims. take LOTS of photos of any parts.

Whatever you do, NEVER SCRAP this. If you can't sell it, please give it to a collector or hold onto it. You're holding history.

Bottomline, try to sell locally, but if you have to ship it, make sure the chap is willing to pay for it to be taken apart or have him come and get it with a truck.

Powertrip wrote: Thanks for the input. I was already planning to pull the plastics if I shipped but thanks for the idea regarding the boards.

No matter what happens... This machine will never see a scrap yard at my hands. I had a lot of plans for it but I have so little free time and it just sits in my office. Either I will hold onto it until that time when I CAN properly appreciate it, or it will go to a good home where someone else will care for it lovingly!

Same for my Onyx2 I got from Zerolapse. I had to go thru a bit of hell for it, but I'll be damned if it gets scrapped - uh uh. Its gonna get used.

Damn dude I'm sorry, that totally blows.

Yeah after the G5 incident you and I had, and a few other systems getting damaged in transit, I've learned how to pack systems much more wisely... its a shame this information I learned is just not widely discussed or taught.