The collected works of tingo - Page 1

So, I finally got myself a Fuel. The hard drive was dead, so I replaced it. Luckily I also bought a SGI Software Library from the same fellow I bought the Fuel from, so I could install something on the new hard drive. Anyway, there is a slight problem: on boot, there is no output on my screen (LCD monitor, 1280x1024, connected via a DVI-to-VGA adapter). Sometimes when I boot there are vertical stripes on the screen. Not good. I connected null modem cable to the first (lower) serial port, and get this output:
Code:
IP35 PROM SGI Version 6.170  built 03:59:07 PM Aug  6, 2003
Running in DDR mode
Testing/Initializing memory ...............      DONE
Copying PROM code to memory ...............      DONE
Discovering local IO ......................      DONE
Discovering NUMAlink connectivity .........
Local hub NUMAlink is down.
*** Local network link down
DONE
Found 1 objects (1 hubs, 0 routers) in 30359 usec
Waiting for peers to complete discovery....      DONE
No other nodes present; becoming global master
Global master is /hw/rack/001/bay/01
Intializing any CPUless nodes..............      DONE
Checking partitioning information .........      DONE
No other nodes present; becoming partition master
Loading BASEIO prom .......................      DONE

BASEIO PROM Monitor SGI Version 6.170  built 03:56:02 PM Aug  6, 2003 (BE64)
1 CPUs on 1 nodes found.
Automatic update of PROM environment disabled

PS/2 Keyboard & Mouse diagnostics
Found mouse on port 0
Found keyboard on port 1
PS/2 Keyboard & Mouse diagnostics passed

Graphics diagnostics

Odyssey board #0 found on nasid 0
Running Odyssey xtalk sanity diag...
Board version 1 - Buzz revision 3B
On board sdram size: 32 Mb
Cas latency: CAS 3
4 banks by sdram module
Running Odyssey Buzz registers diag...
Device passed diagnostics

Installing PROM Device drivers ............
Base I/O Ethernet set to /dev/ethernet/ef0
Installing Graphics Console...
graphics install: searching for pipe 0

Walking SCSI Adapter 0, (pci id 1)
1+ Device Vendor Product: IBM DPSS-318350N
2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 9- 10- 11- 12- 13- 14- 15- = 1 device(s)


Walking SCSI Adapter 1, (pci id 1)
1- 2- 3- 4- 5- 6+ Device Vendor Product: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-M1401
7- 8- 9- 10- 11- 12- 13- 14- 15- = 1 device(s)

Initializing PROM Device drivers ..........             DONE
odsy: frame buffer/fullscreen accum config causes oversubscription of sdram.
odsy: frame buffer/fullscreen accum config causes oversubscription of sdram.
odsy dfifo timeout
odsy dfifo timeout
odsy dfifo timeout
odsy dfifo timeout

(lots more of the "odsy dfifo timout" lines snipped), followed by:
Code:
A 000: *** TLB Refill Exception on node 0
A 000: *** EPC: 0xc00000001fc44de4 (0xc00000001fc44de4)
A 000: *** Press ENTER to continue.
Ouch. After pressing enter, i can do a reset, and sometimes the machine comes up like this:
Code:
A 000: POD IOC3 Unc>  reset
Resetting the system...


IP35 PROM SGI Version 6.170  built 03:59:07 PM Aug  6, 2003
Running in DDR mode
Testing/Initializing memory ...............      DONE
Copying PROM code to memory ...............      DONE
Discovering local IO ......................      DONE
Discovering NUMAlink connectivity .........
Local hub NUMAlink is down.
*** Local network link down
DONE
Found 1 objects (1 hubs, 0 routers) in 30360 usec
Waiting for peers to complete discovery....      DONE
No other nodes present; becoming global master
Global master is /hw/rack/001/bay/01
Intializing any CPUless nodes..............      DONE
Checking partitioning information .........      DONE
No other nodes present; becoming partition master
Loading BASEIO prom .......................      DONE

BASEIO PROM Monitor SGI Version 6.170  built 03:56:02 PM Aug  6, 2003 (BE64)
1 CPUs on 1 nodes found.
Automatic update of PROM environment disabled

PS/2 Keyboard & Mouse diagnostics
Found mouse on port 0
Found keyboard on port 1
PS/2 Keyboard & Mouse diagnostics passed

Graphics diagnostics

Odyssey board #0 found on nasid 0
Running Odyssey xtalk sanity diag...
Board version 1 - Buzz revision 3B
On board sdram size: 32 Mb
Cas latency: CAS 3
4 banks by sdram module
Running Odyssey Buzz registers diag...
Device passed diagnostics

Installing PROM Device drivers ............
Base I/O Ethernet set to /dev/ethernet/ef0
Installing Graphics Console...
graphics install: searching for pipe 0

Walking SCSI Adapter 0, (pci id 1)
1+ Device Vendor Product: IBM DPSS-318350N
2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 9- 10- 11- 12- 13- 14- 15- = 1 device(s)


Walking SCSI Adapter 1, (pci id 1)
1- 2- 3- 4- 5- 6+ Device Vendor Product: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-M1401
7- 8- 9- 10- 11- 12- 13- 14- 15- = 1 device(s)

Initializing PROM Device drivers ..........             DONE
odsy: frame buffer/fullscreen accum config causes oversubscription of sdram.
odsy: frame buffer/fullscreen accum config causes oversubscription of sdram.
ALERT: odsy_tpinit: giving up ... no tport for now.



IRIS console login:

I have taken out the VPro graphics card; the connectors look fine (no corrosion or other stuff) and tried re-seating it a few times. Still the problem remains.
Is my graphics card broken?
Or is there anything else i can do?

Here is a hinv -v of the system:
Code:
>> hinv -v
IP35 Node Board, Module 001c01
ASIC BEDROCK Rev 2, 200 MHz, (nasid 0)
Processor A: 500 MHz R14000 Rev 2.3
Secondary Cache 2MB 250MHz Tap 0xa , (cpu 0)
R14010FPC Rev 2.3
Memory on board, 1024 MBytes (Standard)
Bank 0, 512 MBytes (Standard)  <-- (Software Bank 0)
Bank 1, 512 MBytes (Standard)
IBRICK Bridge, Module 001c01
ASIC BRIDGE Rev 2, (widget 14)
IBRICK Bridge, Module 001c01
ASIC BRIDGE Rev 2, (widget 15)
adapter PCI (SCSI interface) Rev 6
(pci id 1)
peripheral DISK, BUS 0, ID 1, IBM DPSS-318350N
peripheral CDROM, BUS 1, ID 6, TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-M1401
adapter IOC3 Rev 1
(pci id 4)
controller multi function SuperIO
controller Ethernet Rev 1
adapter USB (OHCI interface)
(pci id 5)
ASIC XBOW Rev 2, on CBrick, Module 001c01
ODYSSEY Graphics Board, Module 001c01
>>
Any help appreciated.

_________________
Torfinn
Thanks for the friendly welcome.
Yes, sometimes I can boot into IRIX. But the it says this:
Code:
WARNING: odsy board 0: UNCORRECTABLE_ECC_ERROR received
ALERT: odsy board 0: Graphics error
odsy flags: 0x4<UNCORRECTABLE_ECC_ERROR>
odsy status0: 0x10024080<CFIFO_ENABLED,CFIFO_LW,XRFIFO_LW,RASTER_SYNC_SRC=unset,CFIFO_SYNC_SRC=unset,DMA_SYNC_SRC=unset>
and when I try to run setmon then I get this:
Code:
# /usr/gfx/setmon -n 1280x1024_60
Cannot open display
: Error 0

Forcing it doesn't help either (not that I thought it would):
Code:
# DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/gfx/setmon -n 1280x1024_60
Cannot open display
: Connection refused
I even tried running it on a remote display (from my FreeBSD workstation):
Code:
$ /usr/gfx/setmon -n 1280x1024_60
setmon: must run on local hardware.
Try setting the DISPLAY to :0.0. or :0.1
(of course setting DISPLAY doesn't work here either)

_________________
Torfinn
Is there a way to set / check the screen mode / video mode from the PROM?

_________________
Torfinn
jan-jaap wrote:
This looks like hardware (memory) error to me. I've never heard of a graphics board with ECC memory though. Maybe the ECC error is in main memory. You could remove the main memory DIMMs, clean the contacts and reseat them, see if that makes any differences.

I forgot to say, I have already taken out the DIMMs, and re-seateed them. The contacts looked fine, no corrosion or anything.
Quote:
Otherwise, you could start the hardware diagnostics from the PROM (options '3' rather than '1' which boots the OS). I'm not sure the diagnostics are part of the default IRIX install like for most other SGI workstations, I think they were a separate download for the Fuel.

It seems so:
Code:
System Maintenance Menu

1) Start System
2) Install System Software
3) Run Diagnostics
4) Recover System
5) Enter Command Monitor

Option? 3


Starting diagnostic program...

Press <Esc> to return to the menu.



Autoboot failed.
dksc(0,1,0):/stand/smdk/smdk: no such file or directory.

Hit Enter to continue.

Do anyone know where I can download the diagnostics from? I don't think they are in the IRIX 6.5.22 overlays, and none of the CDs I got when I bought the Fuel have them.
Quote:
If you've got both memory banks filled in the Fuel, you could remove half the RAM in an attempt to isolate the failure.

Only one memory bank filled.
Quote:
I none of that works, I think the V10 must be broken. Fortunately they are fairly cheap (compared to a V12). I'd also contact the person who sold you the system in this condition.

Oh well, one thing at a time.

_________________
Torfinn
So, today I tried to login at SGI Supportfolio again (I created my account only a week ago, and yes - I did login and change the password), but failed. So I tried the "forgot password" link, got a mail with a temporary password, but when I now try to login I get this: "Your account has been inactivated due to inactivity for more than a year.". Huh? My account is only about a week old, how can it have been inactive for a year?
Is SGIs support web site running in warp speed?

_________________
Torfinn
Recently I got myself a Sun Blade 1000 workstation to play with. It has a USIII @ 900 MHz, 102 MB RAM and a PGX64 graphics card. However, most of the time it doesn't boot properly, and I can't get into the OBP (I have a serial console attached). One time when I got into the OBP, I got this out of it:
Code:
ok banner
, No Keyboard
Copyright 1998-2004 Sun Microsystems, Inc.  All rights reserved.
OpenBoot 4.13.0, 0 MB memory installed, Serial #0.
Ethernet address 0:0:0:0:0:0, Host ID: 00000000.


The IDPROM contents are invalid

I checked the battery (CR1632) on the motherboard, it is good.
So, can I fix the IDPROM contents? Like on my old SparcStation 2, which I just reprogram every time I want to play with it?

_________________
Torfinn
Well, the Sun Blade 1000 have a USB keyboard, so Stop-A doesn't work. Instead you have to press the power switch twice ("double-click") when the green light in it is blinking. Which is what I am doing. However, most of the time the only thing on my serial console is this:
Code:
Memory Configuration:
Segment @ Base:        0  Size:  1024 MB ( 2-Way)

And then it just sits there.
But I am still trying to get back into the OBP, I managed somehow one time, so it must be possible to do it again.

_________________
Torfinn
I am using cu for a serial console. I've tried sending breaks with cu, but it doesn't seem to work with my Blade 1000. No, the usb keyboard is not connected when I am using a serial console.

_________________
Torfinn
Yep, and mine is not working. I have sent mail to SGI support, we'll see what they figure out.
Update : well, they couldn't explain why this happened, but they fixed my account quick enough.
And a fast response time too!
Nice!

_________________
Torfinn
Ok the Diagnostics are on SupportFolio:
Customer Diagnostics 2.2 - sMDK Diagnostics for IRIX 6.5.22 (from 30-Oct-2003), however, with my free SupportFolio account, I am not "entitled" to download them. Dang!

_________________
Torfinn
1) add on cards - none
2) RAM re-seated: already done
3) CPU: taken out, re-inserted and torqued
Sorry for not mentioning points 2 and 3 before.

So diagnostic mode can take hours to finish? Really?
Well, if so, this is the first machine with OpenBoot I have experienced which takes a significant amount of time to run / finish diagnostics.

_________________
Torfinn
Well, then I learned something more today. :D
Anyway, I was able to get into OBP again. The first time I got this:
Code:
Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok banner
Corrected ECC Error
ok banner
Data Access Error
ok bannerÿ
Fatal Error reported by: (Cpu0)
CPU0 AFSR: 8800400000000  AFAR: 1ffe100
Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok
Not sure about that "Fatal error". Powered it down and tried again.
Code:
ok set-defaults
Setting NVRAM parameters to default values.
ok asrclear
asrclear ?
ok
Hmm, it doesn't look like asrclear is a supported command?
Some more commands:
Code:
ok banner
Corrected ECC Error
ok .speed
.speed ?
ok .version
Release 4.13.0  created 2004/01/19 18:27
ok banner
SUNW,Sun-Blade-1000 (UltraSPARC-III) , No Keyboard
Copyright 1998-2004 Sun Microsystems, Inc.  All rights reserved.
OpenBoot 4.13.0, 1024 MB memory installed, Serial #50508950.
Ethernet address 0:3:ba:2:b4:96, Host ID: 8302b496.


ÿ
Fatal Error reported by: (Cpu0)
CPU0 AFSR: 8800400000000  AFAR: 1ffe100
Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok Corrected ECC Error
ok

It doesn't look like the system is ok. But if it would stick, this would fix my IDprom:
Code:
ok set-defaults
Setting NVRAM parameters to default values.
ok .idprom
Format/Type: 1 83 Ethernet: 0 3 ba 2 b4 96 Date: 6 20 20 1
Serial: 2 b4 96 Checksum: 3c
ok
Cool, or something.

_________________
Torfinn
But it won't boot:
Code:
ok boot
FATAL: OpenBoot initialization sequence prematurely terminated.

FATAL: system is not bootable, boot command is disabled
ok

So is it only the RAM which is broken, or?

_________________
Torfinn
It doesn't take to the "asr-clear" either:
Code:
ok set-defaults
Setting NVRAM parameters to default values.
ok asr-clear
asr-clear ?
ok
ok sifting asr
In vocabulary  srassembler
(f001cdcc) rdasr        (f001cac4) wrasr        (f001cab0) rdasr
ok
Hmm, I wonder why?

Also, as long as I only have one bank (4 sticks) of DIMMs I really can't swap anything, can I? I can't run the machine with only two sticks?

_________________
Torfinn
Yes, I did try to boot. It still complains that the boot command is disabled.

_________________
Torfinn
FWIW, i tried my RAM in the other bank (bank 1). As expected, it didn't help.
I also tried with only one or two RAM sticks in there, just to find out what will happen. If you try, the system warns you that memory is missing from a bank, then turns itself off. Useful to know. :-)

_________________
Torfinn
hamei - you are correct, the diags are separate, the are not on the tools disk. I have now managed to get the diags, and testing is in progress. We'll see what happens.

_________________
Torfinn
Ok, online diags completed.
Code:
[email protected]# cd /usr/diags/bin
[email protected]# l
./            bridgeloc*    diagsetup*    olenet*       olrtr*        oltape*       olvst*        pandora*
../           cached*       olcmt*        olpci*        olsio*        olusb*        onlinediag*   runalldiags*
[email protected]# ./runalldiags

Running online diagnostics at Normal level
Time: Thu Jul  8 22:40:35 CEST 2010
System Information: IRIX64 IRIS 6.5 6.5.22f 10070055 IP35
Plan on running: olcmt olpci olenet olsio olusb olrtr pandora

olcmt - Cache/Memory Test    (Check /var/adm/SYSLOG for error message)
PASS(olcmt)
olpci - PCI Config Space Dump/Decode
PASS(olpci)
PASS(olpci)
olenet - BaseIO Ethernet Diagnostic
PASS(olenet)
olsio - Serial Port Diagnostic
PASS(olsio.1)
olusb - USB Diagnostic
PASS(olusb)
olrtr - Router Diagnostic
PASS(olrtr)
pandora - System Stress Test
PASS(pandora)

Finished running at Thu Jul  8 23:17:42 CEST 2010
Ran: 8  Failed: 0

[email protected]#
Now proceeding with standalone diags.

_________________
Torfinn
It appears that there might be a problem with the standalone diagnostics. Here is the output:
Code:
Starting diagnostic program...

Press <Esc> to return to the menu.

SMDK SGI Version 6.171 TEST built 04:38:14 AM Sep 24, 2003
smdk loading io discovery code...
smdk loading launcher code...
smdk>
sMDK Diagnostic Launcher: Version 2.0
Built 00:26:41 Sep 24 2003
term none
Setting up diagnostics.....
Starting diagnostics.....



Testing  PIMM............   PASSED
Testing  CACHE...............   PASSED
Testing  DIMM..........................................................................................   PASSED
Testing  IO....
And it looks like the machine hangs there. Is this part (testing IO) a part that takes a very long time to run?

_________________
Torfinn
jan-jaap wrote:
tingo wrote:
It appears that there might be a problem with the standalone diagnostics. Here is the output:
Code:
........................................................................................   PASSED
Testing  IO....
And it looks like the machine hangs there. Is this part (testing IO) a part that takes a very long time to run?

Could very well be it's doing a surface scan of the harddisk. Depending on the disk, just that could take 30min - 1hr.

Well, today I tried again, and let it run for several hours (many hours in fact). Still it stops on the same line. Is there a description of these tests somewhere? So one can find out what they really test, and how they do it?

_________________
Torfinn
So I tried an extensive online diagnostic test:
Code:
[email protected]# ./runalldiags -extensive

Running online diagnostics at Extensive level
Time: Sat Jul 10 01:49:33 CEST 2010
System Information: IRIX64 IRIS 6.5 6.5.22f 10070055 IP35
Plan on running: olcmt olpci olenet olsio olusb olrtr pandora olvst

olcmt - Cache/Memory Test    (Check /var/adm/SYSLOG for error message)
PASS(olcmt)
olpci - PCI Config Space Dump/Decode
PASS(olpci)
PASS(olpci)
olenet - BaseIO Ethernet Diagnostic
PASS(olenet)
olsio - Serial Port Diagnostic
PASS(olsio.1)
olusb - USB Diagnostic
PASS(olusb)
olrtr - Router Diagnostic
PASS(olrtr)
pandora - System Stress Test
FAIL(pandora): see /tmp/diagFailure.0.pandora for details
olvst - Generic Network test using Sockets

Finished running at Sat Jul 10 03:43:12 CEST 2010
Ran: 8  Failed: 1

[email protected]#
and here is the output of the pandora file:
Code:
[email protected]# more /tmp/diagFailure.0.pandora
NOTE                This diagnostic can NOT be run concurrent with any user jobs
CMDL                /usr/diags/bin/pandora -runtime 60
TEST pandora        System level stress test.              Test(1/1), Loop(1/0)
REV                 Pandora version 7.3 built on Jun 29 2006 at 23:57:23
INFO                Start time Sat Jul 10 02:38:27 2010
INFO                Running on IRIX64 6.5.22f 10070055 IP35 (IRIS)
INFO                Pandora run time: 60 minutes
INFO
INFO                Initializing...  Initialization time varies based
INFO                upon how much memory is to be tested and how many
INFO                test processes are set to run in the sysinfo file.
INFO
INFO                Testing will be performed using 1 CPU(s)
INFO                857MB of memory will be tested, if MEM Tests enabled.
INFO                Testing will consist of:
INFO                1   IO Tests
INFO                4   FPU Tests
INFO                4   MEM Tests
INFO                1   GFX Tests
INFO                0   NTWK Tests
INFO
INFO                Completed initialization, starting tests...
HRTB                Testing....................................................
HRTB                ...........................................................
HRTB                ...........................................................
HRTB                ...........................................................
HRTB                ........................

HRTB                Continuing
DIAG       000001   CPID#2498: GFX_PIXEL process may be hung on cpu 0.
HRTB                Continuing. DONE!
I wish it just would tell me in plain text what was wrong.

_________________
Torfinn
This one works: http://www.vmshobbyist.org/

_________________
Torfinn
Highway 101? Oh, it's an american thing. Nevermind, have a nice day.
Torfinn
Pontus wrote:
I think you can find it at "teknikmagasinet" in sweden.

And Teknikmagasinet in Norway has Cyber Clean as well. Perfect - thanks!

_________________
Torfinn
Nice trip, recondas. Sadly, my FXSTC (1997) haven't seen much road (other than between home and work) this year. Too busy. I still have fond memories from the long trip last summer; Oslo (Norway) to Åre (Sweden), then over to Trondheim (back in Norway again) and up to Svolvær (Lofoten) in northern Norway, and back home again via the scenic route (Røros in this case).
Torfinn
tingo wrote: Nice trip, recondas. Sadly, my FLSTC (1997) haven't seen much road (other than between home and work) this year. Too busy. I still have fond memories from the long trip last summer; Oslo (Norway) to Åre (Sweden), then over to Trondheim (back in Norway again) and up to Svolvær (Lofoten) in northern Norway, and back home again via the scenic route (Røros in this case).
recondas wrote: Norway and Sweden sound like a great ride (I'm envious, a ride across Europe and maybe Australia are on the short end of my bucket list). Your Heritage is a great bike to travel with. I used to travel on an FXSTB (if you'd like to see it I sneaked a couple of photos into my nekochan gallery ).

Yeah, we have great rides, both in Norway and Sweden. And Denmark too. Heritage? Ah, I mistyped - i have an FXSTC (Softail Custom). Corrected now.
Your bike looks fantastic - I really like that front wheel.
Torfinn
That is happy news indeed. Cheers!

_________________
Torfinn
Hi,
How hard would it be to get a Sharp X68000 machine for someone outside of Japan today?
And how expensive?
Has anyone here done it? Via a proxy bidding service or some such?

For some reason, I want have such a machine to play with, but I wonder if I have the money for it.

_________________
Torfinn
New Apple products again. I'm trying, but I can't really get myself excited over this.

_________________
Torfinn
Ouch! That was expensive (in my view). Suddenly I understand the price of this one . Too bad it is not a twin tower model. Another one here , but it says "pictures above are just for DEMONSTRATION", not a good sign.

_________________
Torfinn
Well, I haven't got anything there, ie. no Japanese language skills at all.

_________________
Torfinn
Yeah, show us a real working game for example.

_________________
Torfinn
SAQ wrote:
Both of those will likely have disk bottlenecks (60 has Ultra/Wide SCSI, 150 has not-so-good IDE). I'd look at the Blade 1000,1500,2000,2500 series if you can swing them. Not SATA/SAS like the 25/45, but def. faster/better HW.

The Blade 1000 uses FC-AL drives. Are the so much better when it comes to bandwidth?

_________________
Torfinn
SAQ wrote:
UltraSCSI does 40MB/Sec, 1Gb FC-AL does 100MB/sec. The Blade 1k/2k has improved memory technology, faster CPUs, and so it's likely that you will see an improvement.

Hmm, I just installed FreeBSD on a disk in my Blade 1k, maybe I should run a benchmark on the disk.

_________________
Torfinn
Ouch! Not good. Get well soon!
Torfinn
Ooooh... neat system! I'm drooling! I really love "odd" laptops. Congrats!
Torfinn
There was one at eBay this week: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... AA:US:1120
and the seller said he would ship international.
Unfortunately, I didn't win it :-/
Someone else had deeper pockets / wanted it more than me.
Well, that's life. Cheers!

_________________
Torfinn
Well, I knew about the 3.5 inch drives (it was in the description) and still would have bought it.

_________________
Torfinn
and for the record: it is not "X-Windows", it is the "X Window System" or "X".
Sorry, I just had to get that out.

_________________
Torfinn
Have you checked the an macros on the Irix machine for problems?
Torfinn