Everything Else

Yeah, I see the point... but I don't think the planet or the human kind will dissapear because operpopulation, overconsumption, overcapacity...

I think the next period is gonna be pretty rough, but honestly I see humans being around for a loooooooooong time.

My bet is on millions of years.

Other species have done it. Crocs. Crocs are my favorite beast.

Are we stupid? Of course. Can we blow our leg off? We could almost completely kill ourselves off in 2 hours with a few button pushes. Will we? Maybe! And in 50 years we won't even remember what lesson we were supposed to learn.

It just won't be the end .

It'll just really, really suck, but still.

I think people can't imagine human civilization lasting because, other than constantly fantasizing about it for the entirety of human history, our written history isn't that long so we have absolutely no mental image of what a million year old civilization would even look like.

Frapazoid wrote: No delete button?

for the record, the delete button goes away once a new post is made. like this one. muahahaha!

I used a workaround.

Hey there, Frap!

Frapazoid wrote: I think the next period is gonna be pretty rough, but honestly I see humans being around for a loooooooooong time.

My bet is on millions of years.

I don't know if for as much as millions years... at least in this planet... but yes, I think humans are pretty adaptable.

Frapazoid wrote: I think people can't imagine human civilization lasting because, other than constantly fantasizing about it for the entirety of human history, our written history isn't that long so we have absolutely no mental image of what a million year old civilization would even look like.

Indeed! ...and just that is a real challenge! Honestly, every time I try to imagine that, I imagine the human kind travelling the space. I don't think a single planet can support for such a sustained growth for a single specie for a lot of time... but well... who knows!

hamei wrote: You guys have to be joking. I'm oldish for nekochan but not by geological terms ... within my lifetime, glaciers disappearing - glaciers that I used to go drink beer on - polar ice disappearing, ocean pH changing, the damned sea lions moving out of San Francisco ... no wars to reduce the population for the past fifty years, medicine keeping too many cripples alive, people turning into fruitcakes ... if you can't see that there's some big trouble ahead then you're in serious denial.

Human civilization, as we know it is based on a failed model of unsustainable agriculture and the parasite class that has been nurtured by an easily oppressed immobile victim class. This is not just my opinion, learned folks have written about agriculture as being "our" greatest mistake . It is easy to steal and think up clever ways to harm folks when you are not playing hunter/gatherer.

Yes, civilization as we know it has bestowed some amazing gifts upon the populace. These delightful technologies allow a greater aggregation of knowledge over a contracting timeline. The bulk of society uses this data for purposes that are not expanding the understanding of our cosmos in a direct fashion, yet indirectly their continued usage of life extending medical procedures and advanced communication networks for gaming is providing capital or at least a relatively stable base for further expansion of the underlying science. As usual it is the fringes of society that are expanding into the unknown territories of knowledge, not the idiot masses. This has always been the case, the scientist is a rebel venturing into the frontier.

This unsustainable behavior is pushing us toward a cliff (big trouble ahead), while some folks are scrambling to develop wings. Unpredictable disruptive technologies have saved earth from Old Media hyped crisis before, just check out Norman Borlaugh.

hamei wrote: Here's what makes me think it's over : people seem to have lost their brains somewhere. For thirty years the right-wing in the US has been chanting "get government off the backs of business !" (we can see how well that turned out.) So when this SEC thing comes out, the same people moan and whine "Why were these people surfing the web for porn when they were supposed to be protecting us ?" No one says anything about the conflict here ? Or the way a good half the population has been screaming "Drill ! Drill ! Drill ! who cares about the damned caribou / fish / wildlife ?" Now that the Gulf of Mexico is on its way to becoming the LaBrea Tar Pits, all the same people are snivelling that "Obama didn't do enough ! Why didn't the government stop these people ?" We're big on "personal responsibility" as long as it's not us who has to be responsible ?

If people want to be right-wingers or left-wingers or believe that Jesus speaks to them through the towel dispenser in the executive bathroom, I don't care. But puh- lease , at least stick to the same idiot doctrine you've been spouting for the past twenty years ?

Politics is never the answer, and folks will continue to look to it for answers because it claims to be the great and powerful Oz. When you look behind the curtain you find the old charlatan, devoid of insight or usefulness. The myth is propagated because most folks seem to think the system can made to work for them, when in fact it has and will always work against the bulk of humanity for the benefit of a few, regardless of what policies or campaign rhetoric is spewed forth.

This is true in every situation, dating back to the dawn of agriculturalism and the first kings who had a mandate from some divine demon conjured for purely deceptive purposes. Control is the game that these parasites have been playing since they figured they could get a free meal if they dressed in funny clothes and provided false insight or arbitration.

hamei wrote: It's as if people couldn't recognize truth if it rose up out of the grunter and bit them in the ass.

I am reminded of H.P. Lovecraft and his biocentrist insights into this matter. How exactly can a maggot crawling on a mud ball possibly know the truth. It is only deluding itself.

hamei wrote: There is obviously massive operpopulation, overconsumption, overcapacity, serious issues with the world we live on and cannot escape and a disconnect from reality. Yeah, the Maya thing is stupid ... but the impending doom is not. Chanting "Even scientists are human" is ... less than honest with yourself.

Comparing the sum total of humanities grievances with the intoxicant fueled visions of a long dead priest class is not quite honest. 2012 is awfully close and the most alarmist forecasts for humanity turning our mudball into a hell parallel stretch out to around 50 years from now. The bulk of scientists feel that we have a hundred years, at the very least. In that time I hope that humanity becomes a tier 1 civilization, otherwise it will all be for not when a flying mountain in space collides with our planet and provides natures reset.

hamei wrote: Every single disaster of the past fifty years has been predictable and predicted but no one would listen. There's not a chance in hell that people will actually do what it's going to take, so there ya go. Fifty bucks says humanity will not make it to the next century.

I'll put the money in escrow

It is politically inexpedient for the right thing to get done, it always has been. The proper choices will not be made until the only option is do or die. Pain is the best teacher and school is in session.

It seems to me we're just getting started. I mean, we haven't had all this technology for but a hundred years and we're supposed to permanently destroy ourselves on it already?

I realize that we can do that now , but the way I see it, this century in front of us is the do or die moment. The ultimate test to see if Hamei is right or if we get to join the million year club.

Oil and fossil fuels are quite finite so scientist's predictions about CO2 pollution & global warming are beside the point. Even if they're wrong, we can't just stay on oil forever cause it will simply run out, and then we're boned.

We could say, as a metaphor, that God put it there to give us exactly one chance to start a civilization that can stick. Its a great big energy freebie. We can squander it, but it also gives us an opportunity to keep going. It lets you build the rockets, refine the uranium, manufacture the solar panels, pipes, power lines and hadron colliders that let you become that "tier 1" civilization. Do or die.

Just how bad CO2 is doesn't matter; there's no point in using the oil unless we're gonna use it to aggressively move off the oil to the next thing. Its not for desperately fighting over it so we can joyride til it runs out or we kill ourselves on it.

If it turns out that the scientists are wrong and we can cope with the pollution just fine, all that means is we'll last long enough for the free market to right-size us. Which will suck far, far more than certain people fantasize.

Exactly. It is just like the grace period that is offered with some loans... you can use the resources for two (or whatever) years before to start to make payments. That's what God offered with this planet. Now... how much will last this period of grace? Who knows!

oh no! not another graph!

guys this ain't about science

fu wrote: oh no! not another graph!

guys this ain't about science

You're right. It's about people who suddenly have the power to destroy everything around them just so they can have three cars, a 9,000 square foot mansion on a 3,000 square foot lot, two homes for "investments", drive an 8 litre turbocharged diesel dually because it's cool, destroy everything on earth that isn't more powerful than they are because all that counts to a rapacious shark is the bottom line, care for nothing except themselves, yeah. That's what it's about. That and the billion and a half people over here who have absolutely no taste or concern for anything else on earth either, and who've given up on any kind of idealism when faced with the possibility to pretend to be Impotent People with three bucks hidden in the mattress. Drill ! Drill ! Drill some more ! We need the oil !

Nope, I don't have much hope. When you realize it's all about people needing to do something good instead of being rotten little venal greedy ignorant pieces of shit, then the end result is pretty obvious.

hamei wrote: Nope, I don't have much hope. When you realize it's all about people needing to do something good instead of being rotten little venal greedy ignorant pieces of shit, then the end result is pretty obvious.

HL Mencken said something about the Mob (people in general, not the mafia) being comprised of folks who have not made it beyond the ideas and emotions of childhood. I agree with that.

The major thing to remember Hamei is that these folks are not completely representative of humanity. Sure, 90% are mentally immature semi-illiterate morons, but those remaining 10% still seem to get shit done regardless of all the crabs in the bucket.

I don't share your pessimism.

VenomousPinecone wrote: I don't share your pessimism.

Move to China

The US is kind of scary, too. It's been thirty years, guys. You've been bled dry for three decades. Figure out who the enemy is. Hint : has three letters and it's not the Communists hiding under your beds.

I'm sorry but people do not seem very smart. Even worse, they don't seem to learn. But they can sure wreck stuff (e.g., Gulf of Mexico.)

Oh it is sketchy here in the states. The Dow suffered its greatest one day loss today, in the span of an hour.

I am not afraid because I trust the sun will rise tomorrow. As long as the sun shines, I can figure out how to thrive.

VenomousPinecone wrote: Oh it is sketchy here in the states. The Dow suffered its greatest one day loss today, in the span of an hour.

I am not afraid because I trust the sun will rise tomorrow. As long as the sun shines, I can figure out how to thrive.

This. In my few years around I've done just fine for myself regardless of the idiocy of the world at large, and I've surrounded myself with good friends who are doing just fine too. I trust that my future family and children will have what it takes to keep themselves happy too, regardless of the idiocy in the world around us.

Global threats like global warming always hang over us, but if there's anything history has shown us it's that the Earth itself is almost as resilient and adaptable as the humans and animals on it.

VenomousPinecone wrote: Oh it is sketchy here in the states. The Dow suffered its greatest one day loss today, in the span of an hour.

I am not afraid because I trust the sun will rise tomorrow. As long as the sun shines, I can figure out how to thrive.

At least you don't have an earwax eating communist nationalizing 60% of the only functional industry because "ïts not fair that companies are making profits". One statement from our national disgrace and 8 billion wiped off the share market, just like that.

Oh and here lately, the latest male fashion is to wear burqas when doing armed robberies. Extra stylish.

Hey there, guys!
...too many posts to comment on each of them, despite the fact that I don't think my comments would be of any special importance, given the fact that this thread is geeting more interesting everyday, and I'm also more interested for read than write.

But the thing I would like to mention is: many years ago I had a nice book that commented about what the author considered to be a single and unavoidable fact. And these fact was: if the human kind wants to make it to the next evolutive level, it has to develop what he called "Consciousness Of Beehive" ...not in the figurative sense that the people commonly uses to refer to some kind of societies where a community is layouted similarly to a community of ants or bees, but more in a concrete and real sense of beehive. He stated that if we can't reach such thing, we'll not make it up to the next level.

I can't remember the name of the book or the author. I had these wild period where a couple different books crossed my night table each week. Anyway I've stored pretty well the info, but without too much metadata!

The thing is, I think there was something right with these concept... and at some point the world seemed to work towards such a direction, except that at some point everything was perverted... you know, the normal order on the world beehive resulted too altered... by far too much for any reasonable measure... the queen bees abused their power, the drones felt in drugs to make their lifes more supportables, and the intermediaries felt in extreme greed to fill their pockets!

So... are we the society of the future portrayed on the cover from "Cars, Ships, & Airplanes"? ...no way! ...we are the crappy society that you can watch in an episode of "The Office"... you know, everybody watchs his ass, etc...

We are not even there in the K-Scale... don't be fooled... this is a poor joke from what an advanced civilization would be. And I'm not beeing pessimist, but maybe a bit crude. Try to place our actual world into an episode of "Star Trek", and just try to imagine it, just try. We would be some kind of shame zoo, or something like that... you know, if our destiny is travel along the stars to find a Mother Earth's replacement, we are loosing precious time and resources with each TV, each car, each motorcycle, each reality-show, and each loosy unnecessary thing that is produced by means of resources that we would need to exploit to discover how to produce antimatter for cheap in good quantities, how to suspend human life for 5 years without brain damage, and all the rest...

I share the concepts with VP: I also think that there is another 10% pushing real hard in the right direction. The problem is that masses were probably never more stupid than today... to put it in perspective.

But still, I don't think we are facing the EOTW at 2012. Let's face it: we are a real plague for this planet. A plague worst than cockcroaches for this earth. And plagues are, for any means, anything but easy to kill.

Just my 6.626068 × 10-34 Cents!

Frapazoid wrote: ...

Nice trick, Frap!
...you deletted it a fraction of second before a hit "Submit"!

My head's not where it ought to be so I'm not gonna post right now. Ate something I shouldn't.

Frapazoid wrote:
Common 2012 scenarios involve another planet coming out of nowhere and crashing into us. Pole reversal is also popular.

Don't forget those boffins at Meyrin creating a black hole that will put an end to the party. Others have pointed out to the fact that the current wave of global macroseismic activity started after they turned on the switch.

We are unable to drill for oil safely. And we want to recreate the first moments after the BIG BANG? pffft. Seems like one to many boffins have smoked a BIG BONG.

I doubt mankind would be welcome as a galactic traveler. Peddling porn across the universe. Raping and plundering in the name of baby jesus. Brainwashing alien civilizations into buying junk derivatives. For their own good other advaced aliens better be foul tasting, otherwise they'll end up in the deli counter at you local Walmart.

As for the topic of this thread, the Maya were able to create perpetual calendar of Venus, just iook up the codices. So yes, they did know thousands of years in advance where exactly in space Venus would be. Sadly the vast majority of the information the Maya had was destroyed on orders of the church of Rome.

Will 2012 be the end? Who cares.
We are going to see the end of other things before that date.

It sure will be nice to see the end of

I was wondering about the earthquake thing, I found this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02570.html

Peddling porn across the universe.

What if aliens want to buy it?

Filler for their version of national geographic.

aliens better be foul tasting, otherwise they'll end up in the deli counter at you local Walmart.

They are foul tasting, and it doesn't help. The brand name is "Oscar Meyer".

Frapazoid wrote:

Peddling porn across the universe.

What if aliens want to buy it?

I don't know if they will buy... but if this is what they have for sale, I can't think of any successful bussiness model to help them!