Everything Else

Fear of Artificial Intelligence - Page 2

hamei
From over the rainbow
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 6:07 a.m...

sgifanatic wrote: Chess was the ultimate exemplar of human intelligence until Deep Blue.

Where did you get this idea ? Chess is problem-solving but it's not intelligence. Never has been.

Unless you are a believer in today's "get a good score on the test" version of education ... China has gone nowhere for 2,000 years because of this. The US is fast following in their footsteps. Intelligence != problem-solving.

Genghis Khan was intelligent. Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin were intelligent. Lao zi and Chairman Mao were intelligent. Bobby Fisher was an autistic freak who could do only one thing well and the one thing he did is essentially useless.

This stuff you refer to as "intelligence" is merely "being really good at solving predetermined puzzles."

It ain't the same.

It's interesting that you used the theory of relativity as an example of human intelligence. Particularly in physics, many human discoveries have been attributed to symbolic manipulation;

You miss the point. The intelligent part was not calculating the math. The intelligent part was wondering why the universe is made the way it is.

Any nc machine on the planet (even tube-driven Rooski ones) can make more accurate parts than an Italian but not a single one can conceive of an Alfa 8C or create the curves of a 275 GTB. Even humans using computer intelligence cannot. Look at a new car. They are perfect. Perfectly dead and lifeless.

Sorry. Stepford wives ain't never gonna cut the mustard.

duck
Donor
From Jakobstad, Finland
Who joined Oct. 27, 2003, 5:22 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 6:36 a.m...

Appropriate video?

Check out the rest of the channel as well.

halo , oct ane

knightrider , d i g i t a l AlphaPC164, pond , soekris net6501, misc cool stuff in a rack
N.B.: I tend to talk out of my ass. Do not take it too seriously.

commodorejohn
Who joined Oct. 2, 2012, 1:22 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 8 a.m...

hamei wrote: Where did you get this idea ? Chess is problem-solving but it's not intelligence. Never has been.

Moreover, it's problem-solving that is actually incredibly well-suited to a computer, since the state of the board and the possible moves from each state are so limited that even a Commodore 64 can plan several moves ahead without taking too long. And it's problem-solving that's challenging for humans, because we only have a limited capacity for holding temporary state in our heads without either committing it to long-term memory or writing it down. The only thing surprising about it is that computers didn't beat humans at it sooner. But try and find problems in the real world that are that constrained - good luck with that.

Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

robespierre
From Boston
Who joined Sept. 12, 2011, 2:28 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 8:54 a.m...

I would have chosen this video as somehow appropriate to the future of AI.

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 9:01 a.m...

lynxmotion robotic arm

Code: Select all


|012345678901234567890


0:|#####################|


1:|#+++++++++T+++++++++#|


2:|#+        I        +#|


3:|#+        .        +#|


4:|#+        .        +#|


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16:|#+        .        +#|


17:|#+        .        +#|


18:|#+        .        +#|


19:|#+        .        +#|


20:|#+         ....    +#|


21:|#+  +++++++++++.   +#|


22:|#+  +#########+ .  +#|


23:|#+  +++++++++++  . +#|


24:|#+                .+#|


25:|#+                .+#|


26:|#+                .+#|


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32:|#+                .+#|


33:|#+++       +++++++.+#|


34:|###+       +#####+.+#|


35:|###+       +++++#+.+#|


36:|###+           +#+.+#|


37:|###+  +++++++  +#+.+#|


38:|###+  +#####+  +#+.+#|


39:|###+  +#####+  +#+.+#|


40:|###+  +++++++  +#+.+#|


41:|###+           +#+.+#|


42:|###+++++++++++++#+.+#|


43:|#################+.+#|


44:|#+++++++++++++++++.+#|


45:|#+        ........ +#|


46:|#++++++++O++++++++++#|


47:|#####################|


with penalty=2


counter_steps_with_openlist          = 212


counter_steps_with_openlist_accepted = 14


counter_steps_with_newlist           = 168


counter_steps_total                  = 561


solve_path_hops                      = 55

path planner algorithm

the code above is my first move into the AI's Wonderland , it's not smart enough to be called " intelligent ", and it just achieves the purpose of an algorithm able to solve the question: if you are inside a grid, and if you have a list of constraints to be respected, what is the shortest path to reach the destination ? It's a " learn by experiences " path-planner that solves the grid, basically I recycled an A*++ algorithm and I added an tree-engine ( feedback-renforced , cost oriented, neural network ) ables to evaluate different solutions when a few physical rules must be respected (e.g. rule13 : do not take curves with 90 degree, rule14 : be smoothed , rule15 : do not smash yourself into a wall, rule16 : when you see a wall then try to circumnavigate, etc), I taught the " basic strategies ", and then I made the computer able to explore a tree of the suboptimal choices and free to choose one of them with all the consequence it can learn from its experiences, plus the influence of my feedbacks when I judge the solution-path within the range +{ well done! .. crap! }-

I have understood that It's not so simple when the grid has constraints, and, as argued by a MIT video, I have also understood that it's completely different when a computer has a real body that can interact with the real world. My toy " lives " inside a 2D grid , a world without the third dimension, without the gravity force and the dust: I guess I am too young to extend that robot-mind to the lynxmotion robotic arm , becouse in order to achieve this new purpose I need to evolve the path planner into a motion planner , which also implies having to deal with lot of servo-motors, their mechanical details and response curves and feedbacks. I n short I am afraid my knowledge requires a lot of new steps ahead .

I wish I could enter into the vegetable garden of William Gibson , on the right of a director, to decide how a film is ultimately released for public viewing, but I am not a nor Cyberpunk writer neither a dude in Hollywood , and my * flawless English * still looks like an old rusty trailer which needs a fix-up, so my personal wonderland begins with a pill ... tumbling down the rabbit hole , where the sky above the router port is the color of television, tuned to a dead channel and some gears still need a debugger there.

sgifanatic
From Texas
Who joined July 25, 2010, 2:47 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 9:34 a.m...

hamei wrote:

sgifanatic wrote: Chess was the ultimate exemplar of human intelligence until Deep Blue.

Where did you get this idea ? Chess is problem-solving but it's not intelligence. Never has been.

I got this idea from human history. You may have always known that Chess was merely algorithmic problem solving, but most of humanity did not. Quotes regarding adroit chess-playing requiring intelligence are legion.

A modern quote: Chess is a unique cognitive nexus, a place where art and science come together in the human mind and are then refined and improved by experience. - Kasparov

An ancient quote: Al- Mas‘ūdī writes likewise that the king "Balhit", who is said to have codified the game of chess, gave it preference over nerd, a game of chance, because in the former intelligence always has the upper hand over ignorance.

This stuff you refer to as "intelligence" is merely "being really good at solving predetermined puzzles."

It ain't the same.

Until it is. This is the history of AI. The moment an undertaking previously needing human intelligence is solved by a computer, that problem is redefined as something that never needed intelligence to begin with. Until recently, driving a car and pattern recognition were considered beyond the real of algorithmic problem solving. Look again.

You miss the point. The intelligent part was not calculating the math. The intelligent part was wondering why the universe is made the way it is.

Actually, no, I didn't miss the point. Algorithms can have a sense of wonderment not unlike our own. The current issue is scope. When we are faced with something that is unknown, we question it and use cognitive tools - more recently, the scientific method - to explore. The tree of all possible knowledge is indeed vast, and wonderment is a sometimes inexplicable desire to climb up the tree. Man may be further up its limbs in many ways, but the exploration of this tree is not intrinsically exclusive to man or biological intelligence. Much consideration has been given to how we set "goals" for ourselves, and there are interesting theories regarding the "one goal to rule them all"'; the core goal that gives life to all our "drive" and "curiosity". All of this may not be as magical as it seems. And dismissing the possibility of increasingly intelligent AI systems that can explore more and more of the tree of knowledge, is, in my opinion, not particularly intelligent.

Sorry. Stepford wives ain't never gonna cut the mustard.

I don't get the reference. But let me ask Google if it is relevant to our discussion in any way.

duck
Donor
From Jakobstad, Finland
Who joined Oct. 27, 2003, 5:22 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 10:52 a.m...

Wow, I totally missed a whole page of inane twaddle (cj & hamei's replies excluded) before trying to be informative. Makes me wonder if jimmer wasn't on to something with exile.

halo , oct ane

knightrider , d i g i t a l AlphaPC164, pond , soekris net6501, misc cool stuff in a rack
N.B.: I tend to talk out of my ass. Do not take it too seriously.

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 13, 2015, 11:37 a.m...

duck wrote: inane twaddle

new words for my English dictionary, plus an emotional reaction in my mind: I envy Skynet, because she began to learn at a geometric rate, 24/7, while my English seems limited to a sublinear rate.

VenomousPinecone
Moderator
From Northern Nevada
Who joined June 20, 2005, 2:10 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 15, 2015, 9:34 a.m...

hamei wrote: Not for too much longer. When there's no food in another fifty years, artificial intelligence will be the least of the race's worries.

War and disease have a funny way of keeping those numbers in check. I predict limited thermonuclear war before rampant starvation becomes commonplace outside of the third-world, call me an optimist. :lol:

foetz
Moderator
Who joined April 14, 2003, 4:34 a.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 15, 2015, 4:28 p.m...

anyone watched extant?

r-a-c.de

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 16, 2015, 7:24 a.m...

I watched " The Singularity & Friendly AI? - Computerphile " video: amazing!

have fun

tomvos
Donor
From Germany
Who joined July 4, 2008, 1:08 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 19, 2015, 6:48 a.m...

duck wrote: Check out the rest of the channel as well.

Thanks for the link. These guys are quite good at explaining topics. I never thought about the fact that humanity might end by the means of a stamp collector and his overambitious AI. :-)

Where subtlety fails us we must simply make do with cream pies.

duck
Donor
From Jakobstad, Finland
Who joined Oct. 27, 2003, 5:22 p.m.

Wrote the following at Sept. 19, 2015, 8:05 a.m...

tomvos wrote:

duck wrote: Check out the rest of the channel as well.

Thanks for the link. These guys are quite good at explaining topics. I never thought about the fact that humanity might end by the means of a stamp collector and his overambitious AI.

Quite a few of Brady Haran's channels (he's got videos on lots of subjects) are funny/serious like that. I recommend checking out his other stuff as well; the podcast he does with CGP Gray is a weekly highlight for me.

halo , oct ane

knightrider , d i g i t a l AlphaPC164, pond , soekris net6501, misc cool stuff in a rack
N.B.: I tend to talk out of my ass. Do not take it too seriously.

hamei
From over the rainbow
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.

Wrote the following at Oct. 1, 2015, 1:37 a.m...

You guys are bad. You made me download Logan's Run .

The first half was silly but Jenny Agutter without any underwear and barely any overwear made it passable. Or better than passable

But the second part, hokey smokes, Alfie. Whose idea was that ? The minute he said, "We have to go back and save them" I knew it was over. Threw the file away at that point. Even Jenny Braless couldn't have saved that.

Feeling happy I didn't spend $7.50 on it when it was in the theatres.

So much for artificial intelligence ....

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Oct. 10, 2015, 3:41 p.m...

Man & Machine

In the beginning was man, and man wanted to know, and so man learned, and the Universe was thus deciphered, or plausible substitutes for the indecipherable presented. And when man mastered " the physical " he looked to his own soul and saw it could not be explained quite so easily. How did a vast collage of atoms and molecules develop a consciousness and intelligence? Here, now,was the challenge to rival all others, here was a chance to become God and to make others in man's own image. But how?

`` The problem of understanding understanding is really part of the larger problem of the mind understanding itself. '' (Frank Rose)

have fun

commodorejohn
Who joined Oct. 2, 2012, 1:22 p.m.

Wrote the following at Oct. 10, 2015, 6:04 p.m...

ivelegacy wrote: In the beginning was man, and man wanted to know, and so man learned, and the Universe was thus deciphered, or plausible substitutes for the indecipherable presented. And when man mastered " the physical " he looked to his own soul and saw it could not be explained quite so easily. How did a vast collage of atoms and molecules develop a consciousness and intelligence? Here, now,was the challenge to rival all others, here was a chance to become God and to make others in man's own image.

And somewhere, God chuckles to Himself and thinks, yeah, ask Me about how that typically works out sometime .

hamei
From over the rainbow
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.

Wrote the following at Oct. 10, 2015, 6:36 p.m...

commodorejohn wrote: And somewhere, God chuckles to Himself and thinks, yeah, ask Me about how that typically works out sometime .

If you enjoy the fantasy end more than the hardware end of science fiction, Steven R Donaldson, the Thomas Covenant books have some interesting ideas on that subject.

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Jan. 13, 2016, 1:10 a.m...

Welcome to the Future, The Quantum Computing Era Has Begun

… Every so often there is a chance to make a difference.
To undertake a project, which against all odds,
makes a technology of the future an achievement of today

Capabilities & Optimization

Machine Learning
Pattern Recognition and Anomaly Detection
Financial Analysis
Software/Hardware Verification and Validation
blablabla ...
Automated Defense Network, processing information at ninety teraflops
Highly advanced artificial intelligence able to become self-aware
Manufacturing battle units in vast automated factories more efficiently

Trust Skynet, Robots replacing soldiers will make everybody safer

The first useful application of this new technology!

have fun

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Jan. 23, 2016, 4:40 a.m...

University of Pennsylvania Lab, Vijay Kumar and his team have created autonomous aerial robots inspired by honeybees. Their latest breakthrough: Precision Farming, in which swarms of robots map, reconstruct and analyze every plant and piece of fruit in an orchard, providing vital information to farmers that can help improve yields and make water management smarter.

have fun

ivelegacy
From Italy
Who joined Jan. 4, 2015, 5:12 a.m.

Wrote the following at Jan. 28, 2016, 7:57 a.m...

and google AI algorithm masters ancient game of go , Deep-learning software defeats human professional for first time :shock:

have fun