The collected works of commodorejohn - Page 1

I recently bought a VAXStation on eBay, and it arrived today; it's in good shape, powers on and appears to get through the self-test. However, I'm having some problems, and I'm wondering if anybody can help me with them:

  • I don't seem to be getting a picture out of the video card (PV21X-GD high-resolution color board.) I'm using an LCD monitor (Samsung Syncmaster 193p Plus) that is supposed to support sync-on-green (and that definitely supports the resolution and refresh rate used) with a makeshift cable setup (RS/6000 3W3-to-BNC cable plus 3xBNC-to-VGA cable - I gather that the RS/6000 has red and blue switched around, but I accounted for that and anyway it should only affect the colors, not the ability to form a picture.) But I'm not getting anything - the monitor OSD is claiming "no signal," not even that it's out-of-range. Is there some trick to this that I'm missing?
  • More problematically, I can't get to the console over the serial port, either. I have the baud rate set correctly on my terminal, but I'm not seeing any output at all. Do the console functions only work over the MMJ RS-423 serial port and not the DB-25 RS-232 one?

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
kjaer wrote:
Don't assume that green is in the same place. You need green to get to green, before figuring out if red and blue are the wrong way around. Try each of the three BNCs out of the 3W3 to green on the VGA cable. If it's going to work, it'll work with just the green hooked up correctly. Then you can work on straightening out red and blue.

Yeah, I got out the multimeter and verified continuity on the cabling; everything is going where it should, so the problem's either at the monitor end or the VAX end. Wish I had an oscilliscope...

miod wrote:
You might want to check that the graphics board is correctly fitted in its connector - it's not uncommon for VAXstation 4000 graphics board to move during transportation.

I reseated it myself, it's in there as firmly as I could get it without undue strain...

Quote:
The only suitable serial console port is the MMJ port - the DB-25 is a different port (there are four serial ports on the machine, two for keyboard and mouse, two for regular operation).

Thanks for clearing that up. Is converting RS-423 (as I read the MMJ uses this) to RS-232 simply a matter of wiring?

Quote:
You might also want to check the status of the S3 switch on the front panel, which selects between glass and serial console.

I've had it in both positions, corresponding to my attempts to use the serial port or monitor as the console...

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Yep, I already got the service manuals off Manx. I'll see about getting an MMJ cable made...

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Well, a guy on the Vintage Computer Forums made me an adapter, so as soon as that gets here I'll at least be able to get it up and running. Graphics will have to wait until I can get a known-compatible monitor, but luckily there are a few the folks on comp.os.vms recommended that can be had quite cheaply.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Okay, my serial adapter got here this morning, and she's booting to the console over the serial port :) It's actually got the full 104MB of RAM; this was more of a score than I'd realized! Still having some trouble, though. For starters, SHOW DEVICE doesn't seem to list the hard drive, so I'm assuming some SCSI voodoo is in order. Joy. :/ (That, or my 68-to-50-pin adapter doesn't work - entirely possible, as I've never actually used it before. I need to get my PC SCSI controller installed so I can verify some of this stuff...)

Furthermore, while it recognizes the CD drive just fine, when I try to boot from it ( b/r5:10000000 dka400: , according to the OpenVMS VAX install guide ,) it loads from disk and then just sits there. It might simply be taking a while, but there's no further disk activity, and the two times I've halted it in the middle, it's shown the exact same PC value, which kinda suggests that it's just sitting idle at that address...is there something I'm missing, here?

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Internal. It's a newer drive (Ultra2 LVD SCSI,) and I'm getting conflicting reports from the folks on comp.os.vms on how friendly later VAXStations are with newer SCSI equipment. However, I did verify that A. the drive works (in my PC, on the controller's 68-pin connector,) and B. the 68-to-50-pin adapter doesn't (on the controller's 50-pin connector.) This is not a terrible surprise, as I grabbed the cheapest Chinese bare-board adapter off eBay (I've since learned my lesson about doing that,) and then never used it for anything, so I had no idea if it worked to begin with.

Now I just need to get a halfway decent one...

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
The CD-ROM drive is a DEC RRD-42 - it's compatible with the VAX, but according to the folks on comp.os.vms it can't handle CD-R media, which would be the source of the problem for me. I have a Plextor drive on the way that supports 512-byte sectors and that some promo material claims is Alpha/VAX-compatible.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Well, I'd rather just get another CD drive working with it if possible, but I'll keep that in mind. Netbooting's always been a PITA in my experience, though, and I can't imagine it's easier on older equipment.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Well, a couple of decent (read: overpriced!) 68-to-50-pin converters (with high-byte termination) and an IBM/Plextor CD-ROM drive from my RS/6000 solved my SCSI woes, and a huge old NEC LCD monitor allowed me to get video working, so that's that out of the way. Now I just need to navigate my way through the OpenVMS install process...

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Well, I've got some miscellaneous extra install files on another CD, and I figured out how to mount the CD from the DCL prompt, but I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out where it's mounted to. I'm working my way through the OpenVMS User's Manual, but in the meantime, is there a quick/simple guide to how the VMS filesystem hierarchy works?

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Can anyone tell me what parameters I should use for SET TERMINAL to match whatever the VAXStation 4000 graphical console emulates? I can't find much in the way of manuals for the graphical option boards, so I don't know if they specify or not. I would bet that I can just tell it to be a VT-100 and have no problems, but it'd be nice to know exactly what it's supposed to be.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Yeah, the guys on comp.os.vms informed me that the graphical (i.e. non-serial) console is basically a glass TTY. I didn't have DECWindows installed at the time because I was having a little trouble with the installation kits, but I got that resolved (unzipping them on the PC and burning a CD with the unzipped files missed some metadata that was apparently important,) so DECWindows is now up and running and the question is irrelevant.

On to trying out DOOM :D

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
I've used old Apple SCSI CD-ROM drives with CD-Rs before and never had an issue, myself...not on the VAX, tho.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
I've been wanting to get an Alpha system for a while now, and I finally nabbed a 21164 + 164LX CPU/motherboard/RAM combo off eBay. Given that it's an ATX board with onboard IDE, that's most of the essentials right there and getting a case/PSU/drives is dead simple, but since I plan to make this a Win2k system, obviously I want video, and also networking. I'm assuming that they'll have to be Alpha-specific cards - or can the x86 emulation also work for PCI card BIOSes? (I doubt it, but I know very little about this.)

Also, is support for ISA cards anywhere near as broad as it is in x86 Win2k? I'd kinda like to put one of my AWE32 cards in there, though that's not essential.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
SAQ wrote: Alphas will run any initialization routines that are in PC-sourced PCI cards, so they'll do anything a video card needs to be brought up and set up PCI bridges properly. Alpha's BIOS emulation does not extend to BIOS calls, so your cards will still need AXP drivers.

My advice - check the HCL, but if you find a card that's a match (be careful with cards that have customized PCI IDs!) it'll run just fine if it came out of a PC.

Interesting. I'm still curious as to whether Win2k/Alpha comes with the kind of driver selection Win2k/x86 does, but that at least means that I can try out some of my own cards before buying new ones.

GL1zdA wrote: The 164LX is a great board, but since it's ATX be careful and remember to pull the plug and press the PowerOn button before you touch it.

Hmm. Unplugging is standard practice, of course, but I've never heard of pressing the power-on button before. Does that discharge capacitors, or what?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Oh, also: do Alphas have the same expectation of 512-byte sectors on CD-ROM drives that my VAX does? Or did that get dropped when they added IDE support?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Huzzah for creeping assimilation into homogeneity.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Okay, so it passes its memory test and boots into AlphaBIOS setup without issue, and it gets along fine with the video card I've got in there at the moment. I'm having trouble, though, because it does not seem to want to recognize the hard disk. It's the only IDE device attached, at the moment, and it's set to master so it shouldn't be the problem I've seen with some controllers not liking cable-select, but the BIOS reports no hard disks found. Is there a trick to this that I'm not aware of?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
That bad, huh? Hmm. I have a couple PCI SCSI controllers, I'm not sure if they're in the HCL though.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Hmm. The controllers I have on hand are an Adaptec 29160N (doesn't seem to be in the HCL,) and an Adaptec 2930CU (is in there, but this specific card is from a PPC Mac - any idea if it would still work without the x86 BIOS emulation?) I may just have to nab one off eBay.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/Jupiter-6/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01, Korg DW-8000/03-RW/MS-20 Mini, E-mu Proteus MPS/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
I'm 27, and I'm a little surprised by how many people are in my age bracket here.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Any last outposts of alternative architectures in this era of creeping x86/ARM duoculture are worthy of my respect.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01/SY22, Korg DW-8000/MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/M1/03-RW, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris
bluecode wrote:
commodorejohn wrote: Any last outposts of alternative architectures in this era of creeping x86/ARM duoculture are worthy of my respect.

You're the guy running NT on Alpha, aren't you?

Then no. :lol:

And running VMS on VAX...and RT-11 on PDP-11...and Kickstart/Workbench 3.1 on Amiga...there's room for variety, is what I'm saying.

How many people actually have any interaction with the hardware? UNIX boxes are 99% C and the rest is assembly wrapped in C. Most UNIX and Windows programmers are completely isolated from the box they're coding on. The API is the machine. Does it really matter what the architecture is as long as it performs as you want?

The API is not the machine, because you take the machine away and the API is just a collection of theory. Hardware will always matter because without it software is irrelevant. (Besides which, even in the RISC world architectures differ significantly in performance characteristics for different applications.) The idea that we've reached (or will reach) some kind of transcendent state wherein software runs in an ethereal realm of Pure Computation where the concerns of the physical processor world cannot touch it is futurist silliness.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01/SY22, Korg DW-8000/MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/M1/03-RW, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris
Don't get me started, man.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01/SY22, Korg DW-8000/MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/M1/03-RW, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris
Nothing is dead and gone until the last devotee dies and all of the books are burned, man. Unless that happens, it's all just wax and wane. Right now, sure, there aren't many people paying attention to anything at the lower level. But there's still call for assembler optimization in performance programming, console developers still get their hands dirty exploiting a fixed set of hardware, and the development of GPUs into massively-multicore stream processors is opening up a whole new avenue for wild and wonderful experimentation. And eventually, when Moore's Law hits the wall imposed by that pesky physics and multicore computing reaches its peak efficiency, you're gonna see a return to the days of widespread low-level optimization, as the world tries to shake its addiction to an ever-increasing horsepower level that it simply can't have anymore...take heart, my friend.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/D-50/MT-32/SC-55k, Ensoniq SQ-80/Mirage, Yamaha DX7/V-50/FB-01/SY22, Korg DW-8000/MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/M1/03-RW, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus/2, Rhodes Chroma Polaris
No, I got mine from an eBay seller who posts them periodically for quite cheap. (Ah, here. )

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
I need to play around with RiscOS on my Pi some more. The more Windows goes down the tablet toilet, the more I really want to find an alternative, but I've been burned with Linux too many times to consider that route. What I've seen of RiscOS impresses me greatly. It'd take some getting used to to not have Photoshop or Jeskola Buzz, but any full-featured image-editing program should theoretically work for drawing (at least if the rPi version supports Wacom tablets,) and now that I'm branching out into MIDI gear I'm not as dependent on x86 VSTs for music as I was even at the beginning of the year...

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
I listen to a lot of music (there are a few genres I can't stand and won't touch, but not many,) but I'm particularly big into '60s-'70s classic rock (and '60s pop-rock, before "pop" split off to become its own boring, written-by-committee thing.) Everything from the Monkees to Chicago (the good , '60s-'70s Chicago, that is) to Deep Purple is pretty much my cup of tea. I'm also a fan of golden-age video game music (everything from the Ms. Pac-Man interstitials through the Super Nintendo and Yamaha FM synthesis on the Genesis and PC.) Modern J-pop/rock also gets something of a thumbs-up; I only really like a certain percentage of it, but I admire the rabidity and enthusiasm with which Japanese songwriters cannibalize and syncretize such a massive variety of source material. Lately I've even been getting into some late-'80s/early-'90s New Age stuff (found a stash of Narada Records tapes at the thrift store for dirt-cheap and needed something to listen to when driving,) though I find it to be more background music than listening music.

My truest love, however, is classic progressive rock of the '60s and '70s. Yes, Pink Floyd, Genesis (again, the good , early-to-mid-'70s Genesis,) King Crimson, ELP, and so many other lesser-known groups (Starcastle - the best Yes cover band that never actually covered Yes!) Part of it's that, as with J-pop, I greatly admire people with a broad musical palate who freely incorporate any influence they want into their own unique watchagot stew of sounds, and prog is that in spades, with the added bonus that nobody feels that it's some sort of mortal sin to have any song that's longer than seven minutes and it's better to stay closer to four, so they get plenty of room to play with longer, more complex ideas and instrumental virtuosity. (Granted, some of them can take it too far the other way, but still.) There's also the fact that I just love the sounds of the Mellotron, Hammond B-3, and Minimoog, and they're genre standards in prog. This is the genre that my own efforts most often fall into, up to and including the 17-minute space-rock epic I finished last spring. (Currently working on the last piece of an album built around that...)

Mmm. Good stuff, that prog-rock.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Gnash works for stuff like HomestarRunner and Newgrounds cartoons, but it doesn't handle Flash video players well, in my experience. I struggled for days to get Lightspark to run on Debian on a G5, and that could play YouTube, except it was crashy as hell.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Well, that gives us a good few years to crack the license format and steal the source code...

Bastards. Like we need to be moving closer to a world of indistinguishable Unix derivatives.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
urbancamo wrote:
Sorry, but I totally disagree with this statement. I personally would see the architectures and protocols that we have to use in web development substantially different but how you can argue that software hasn't had a significant impact on the 'average Jo' is beyond me.

It's not that there haven't been noticeable impacts, it's that they haven't been ones that are really all that great. It's cool that we've got forums like this, and we can send email across the world many times faster than it takes to mail a letter, but overall were we really that much worse off in, say, the '70s or '80s for not having "modern" software? Seems to me we got along just fine back then.

SAQ wrote:
I just realized that this is another milestone - the last bit of DEC to be buried. Compaq killed off VAX, HP killed off Tru64 shortly after buying it and Alpha somewhat later (those pesky customers - they kept buying it instead of quietly going to Integrity) . StorageWorks was dropped, now OVMS.

That's what really burns about this - HP having been trying to bury OpenVMS since they acquired it, this is just them finally getting it positioned properly in the grave. It's all politics...there ought to be a law that a company that buys out a product line is obligated to support it indefinitely, then maybe we wouldn't get so many companies that acquire something for the purpose of squashing and/or "buying" its customer base.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Again, though, I'm not saying there haven't been some spiffy things done, I'm saying that the Dark Ages didn't extend through the 1990s. The fact that a kid who's grown up with PCs being commonplace fixtures of daily life might see it that way doesn't make it so.

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Hey, those worked just fine...heck, VMS Notes is still available on a lot of systems ;)

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
bluecode wrote:
Yeah but this is a borderline nutcase/Luddite view and aside from you and me there are obviously not enough people who subscribe to it. Time goes on whether we like it or not. Running antique (cough) vintage (cough) hardware and software is just a temporary respite. When you get up from your chair you have to face the world moved on from there. Not for the better but there's no stopping it.

First off, the fact that most people don't subscribe to a viewpoint has no relevance to its accuracy. I'm not saying that people don't think they're a million times better off now than they were in the dark ages of the '70s and '80s, I'm saying that they really weren't - no matter what they think.

Additionally, it's not as inescapable as all that yet. For the time being, we still have the choice of whether or not to be involved in a lot of things; I don't have a Facebook account, and I never will. I do have a cell phone, but only in case of getting stranded on the road in the snow or somesuch, and I don't hesitate to turn the damn thing off when I want some quiet time.

And anyway, even if it is inevitable, who says we have to approve of it?

Quote:
Do you have a cite for that Stroustrup quote btw? I've read quite a few statements by him that suggest he knows which end is up notwithstanding the fact he invented C++.

Right here. That whole page is worth reading; the man is so far removed into the realm of sensible and sane from the IT industry at large that it's not even funny...

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Indeed, Stroustrup's comments are a breath of fresh air; what I mean is that it's sad that the rest of the industry is so lost in the wilderness compared to this one prof...

_________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, E-mu Proteus/1, Roland MT-32, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha V50, Casio CZ-1000, Casio HT-6000, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Go. See. This. Movie. If you have even a sliver of geek or B-movie fan in you or even just want to see spectacle blockbusters that take joy in their premise again instead of being constantly grimy and dour, do not miss this movie. It's a note-perfect homage/tribute/mashup/fan film for mecha anime and Japanese monster movies alike, mixed in with Hollywood summer blockbuster sensibilities - but from those halcyon days when summer blockbusters could actually be good and fun. It wears Neon Genesis Evangelion on its sleeve in many ways, but unlike that show it keeps the "giant robots versus Godzilla" aspect front and center and develops its characters through that, instead of devolving into navel-gazing.

My God you guys, do not miss this movie.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
It's definitely a serious movie and not a spoof (though it's packed with little funny bits that lighten the mood but don't get in the way,) but it's not dour and joyless like so many modern blockbusters...

_________________
Amiga 1200 (KS3.1/ClassicWB3.1, 4GB HD, 34MB RAM, 68030 @ 50MHz)
DEC VAXStation 4000/60 (OpenVMS 7.3, 9GB HD, 104MB RAM, KA46 @ 55MHz)
DEC MicroPDP-11/73 (RT-11, 32MB HD, 4MB RAM, KDJ11 @ 15MHz)
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Got this for free at the recycle center today. Haven't gotten a chance to see what's in it yet, other than that it's 233MHz (according to the label,) and there's only one DIMM (which means that RAM's anywhere from 16-128MB) and no video card. I see that it's on the HCL for Windows NT 4.0, so I'm considering giving that a try, but there's a couple things I'm not sure of:
  • In sourcing a video card, what restrictions are there on compatibility? Will a PCI card from a PPC Mac work? What about an x86 video card? (I know AlphaBIOS does emulation of x86 BIOSes, but Apple's OpenFirmware doesn't, so I'm guessing IBM's probably doesn't either?) If I use a card that OpenFirmware can't natively initialize, will NT still be able to talk to it as long as it's in the HCL?
  • I read that NT will run 286 Win16 software in emulation, and that NT 4.0 will even run 386 Enhanced Win16 software, but it sounds like PowerPC NT won't run x86 Win32 software (unlike Alpha NT.) Is there a good source for PPC Windows software on the Internet?
Interested to see what this is like...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
Okay, finally got it plugged in and test-booted. It's an AIX 4.3 system from a local clinic, with 64MB RAM, a 9GB hard drive, and a DDS3 tape drive (in addition to CD-ROM and floppy disk.) Not bad at all for NT's system requirements.

The thing I'm curious about is that it reports having a "PowerPC 760" instead of the 604e the sticker on the bezel claims - though still at 233MHz with 1MB L2 cache. I'm finding a lot of conflicting information about the 760 - some people call it the "G3e," while some people say it's just a 604e...anybody know what the details are on this thing?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
I find it amusing to run Windows on esoteric hardware ;) Besides, I have neither the root password for this system nor AIX install/rescue media with which to set up an install I can use.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup