SGI: Discussion

I've been wondering for a week or so now why Silicon Graphics chose the pizza box approach for the Indigo 2 and Indy? The Indy I get since it was a low cost machine going against other machines at the time (Sun's SPARCstation, NeXT's NeXTstation, PCs etc.). But the departure from the extremely stylized and iconic Indigo for it's successor I find extremely odd. Were people at the time wanting a more practical machine they could rest a 19" CRT on their workstation? Were the stands for the Indigo 2 meant to appeal to those who didn't want to do that? And then a few years later the O2 and Octane returned to the stylized approach.

IIRC, there were people who placed really large CRT monitors on top of their pizzaboxes and cracked the case. Ever seen one of those 24" widescreen Sony FW900's? It weighs nearly 50kg.

Couldn't imagine hauling a FW900. I had 19" iiyama visionmaster crt monitors back in the day and yes I hauled them to lan parties back in high school - nearly dropped them going up and down the stairs every other weekend.

I was just curious, especially for the folks on here who were actively using workstations back in 1992/1993, I was simply too young.

I don't know the reasons why, but I would guess at atleast two:

First, the term pizza box was almost a category descriptor at the time, thanks to Sun. NeXT did the unconventional cube and then moved to the pizza box design also. I think Unix workstation vendors felt they needed a "pizza box" to be in the pizza box workstation business. This form factor, prior to xU-standardized rack mounted equipment, also allowed for greater density when placed in racks.

Second, the Indigo2 implemented EISA and since this bus originated in the PC world, the most convenient way to accommodate EISA card dimensions was to go for a PC style chassis form-factor. Which is roughly what the Indigo2 was.

And yes, placing the monitor on top of the desktop case could have been a third reason. It makes logical sense.

I had a compaq PC which was somewhat similar to indigo2 internally. Mainboard with a riser in the middle for pci/eisa. It was fairly common in the mid 90s.

Besides, the pizzabox form factor such as indy makes sense when you think that the largest component is the mainboard/planer PCB, so the box should be relatively flat too.

This form factor, prior to xU-standardized rack mounted equipment, also allowed for greater density when placed in racks.

When are *all* workstations going to having the cpus and gpus mounted to the same giant heatsink with one bigass fan to cool it all? (ala trash can) It doesn't make much sense anymore to do it the old way...

jan-jaap wrote: IIRC, there were people who placed really large CRT monitors on top of their pizzaboxes and cracked the case. Ever seen one of those 24" widescreen Sony FW900's? It weighs nearly 50kg.

Sometimes I see machines on fleabay, with a kink in the top of the case, where the previous owners have apparently thrown something heavy on the top and crushed it.

sgifanatic wrote: I don't know the reasons why, but I would guess at atleast two:

First, the term pizza box was almost a category descriptor at the time, thanks to Sun. NeXT did the unconventional cube and then moved to the pizza box design also. I think Unix workstation vendors felt they needed a "pizza box" to be in the pizza box workstation business. This form factor, prior to xU-standardized rack mounted equipment, also allowed for greater density when placed in racks.

Second, the Indigo2 implemented EISA and since this bus originated in the PC world, the most convenient way to accommodate EISA card dimensions was to go for a PC style chassis form-factor. Which is roughly what the Indigo2 was.

And yes, placing the monitor on top of the desktop case could have been a third reason. It makes logical sense.

Great point about EISA, up until 1994 my house only had pizzabox style PCs (Tandy 1000, Packard Bell 386 etc.). Never thought about the transition point in the PC world to Towers - probably helped drive the return to non-pizzabox style with the O2 and Octane with both adopting PCI card support.

It's a shame there probably isn't much documentation on the initial Indigo 2 design meetings to read other possible approaches (maybe a larger Indigo style with the slide out boards like what would return in the O2/Octane). Or maybe keeping the Indy as the pizzabox and Indigo 2 as the more unique machine since it had a premium over the Indy.

I hope one day we get a book that dives into Silicon Graphics from their inception through to the Tezro and that interviews take place before people pass away or forget some of the more interesting product development and engineering notes that most people on here would find invaluable.

I'd like to counter the idea that "pizza box" == "any desktop style enclosure". An Indigo2 is not a pizza box. The Tandy 1000 is not a pizza box. I'd argue that the Sun Ultra 1 isn't really a pizza box. Indy, sure.

The SPARCstation 1 really does resemble a pizza box in many ways. It was a novel package for a computer system, by 1989 standards.

kjaer wrote: I'd like to counter the idea that "pizza box" == "any desktop style enclosure". An Indigo2 is not a pizza box. The Tandy 1000 is not a pizza box. I'd argue that the Sun Ultra 1 isn't really a pizza box. Indy, sure.

The SPARCstation 1 really does resemble a pizza box in many ways. It was a novel package for a computer system, by 1989 standards.

I can see that, maybe a better description would be "Horizontal Desktop Enclosure" where some styling may be achieved like in the Indigo2, Indy, NeXTstation etc. but generally un-stylized and utilized in a horizontal fashion compared to the more tower/custom shapes of the Indigo/O2/Octane/Tezro/NeXTcube/G4 Cube/etc.

kjaer wrote: I'd like to counter the idea that "pizza box" == "any desktop style enclosure". An Indigo2 is not a pizza box. The Tandy 1000 is not a pizza box. I'd argue that the Sun Ultra 1 isn't really a pizza box. Indy, sure.

The SPARCstation 1 really does resemble a pizza box in many ways. It was a novel package for a computer system, by 1989 standards.

+1. I don't recall anybody at the time referring to the Indigo2 as a pizza box *. And by coloring them teal and purple SGI made sure they weren't going to be compared to typical beige box PCs no matter what was inside...


* The referenced DG ad from 1991 was cute, but it's a misleading example for that article as the AViiON 7000 and 8000 systems were cabinet-based SMP machines. The CPU board in question was certain pizza-sized, but the machines it would be used in were not desktops.. Arguably the first generation desktop AViiON workstations, the 300/310, would qualify as they were similar to the old Sun-3/60 - a single outsized board in a thin enclosure with no internal peripherals.

Add the feet and the Indigo2 is a tower again anyway

guardian452 wrote: When are *all* workstations going to having the cpus and gpus mounted to the same giant heatsink with one bigass fan to cool it all? (ala trash can) It doesn't make much sense anymore to do it the old way...

you mean like the mac pro? never i suppose. you'd need totally different expansion cards for that? - or it would have to be one massive trashcan indeed. cool machine though.

indy was super ergonomic with those 17 or 20 inch monitors put on top of it, just the right height. loved that. indigo2 was a bit too fat - you had to look up slightly when sat at the desk. also it was blowing hot air my way. now that i found a questionable design decision.

The Indy makes me think of the Mac LC, which is appropriate since both were each company's respective low end machines.

If you were lugging around monitors that heavy, how did anyone have any energy to deathmatch after that?

It is no wonder that as soon as LCD's became affordable, the CRT died off so quickly. I remember the days of going to LAN parties and having to lug my computer and monitor back and forth and it became excruciating after a while. Not to mention working in IT as computer monitors ramped up quickly from little 12-14" tiddlers, to being regularly 17 or 19" - my poor back.

chicaneuk wrote: It is no wonder that as soon as LCD's became affordable, the CRT died off so quickly. I remember the days of going to LAN parties and having to lug my computer and monitor back and forth and it became excruciating after a while. Not to mention working in IT as computer monitors ramped up quickly from little 12-14" tiddlers, to being regularly 17 or 19" - my poor back.

unfortunately practical and monetary reasons won over quality. especially early lcd's were awful

chicaneuk wrote: It is no wonder that as soon as LCD's became affordable, the CRT died off so quickly. I remember the days of going to LAN parties and having to lug my computer and monitor back and forth and it became excruciating after a while. Not to mention working in IT as computer monitors ramped up quickly from little 12-14" tiddlers, to being regularly 17 or 19" - my poor back.

i imagine the number of people who carry their desktop screens around often must have been pretty small at all times. might have had more to do with the very stable image, drastically lower energy requirements and heat output and the lack of the high pitched whine that CRTs emit. also, how did we ever fit keyboards, wacom tablets and CRTs on a normal sized office desk?

Hmm i know this topic is pretty much dead , but imagine if they went the route of the original imac? hehe, Could have been something....

If you designed a new SGI MIPS box, how would it look, and what colour would it be?

Another thing to look at is the number of connectors. Indigo had HP1/HP2-> backplane and backplane ->graphics, and both of those had to be up. Indigo2 and Indy were both SBCs with graphics on them - though I2 did have the EISA riser board connection. In a similar vein SGI simplified the Octane/Origin architecture to a SBC with I/O expansion riser for Fuel/Tezro/O3x (though cost reductions in other places took their toll there).

Not sure if this is the right topic, but I can't figure out what this means:

Indigo2 IMPACT Product Guide

Live Video:

• Expansion port supports Indigo2 Mindshare Bundle , Indigo2 IMPACT Video, Indigo2 IMPACT Channel Option, or Indigo2 Presenter

I have never seen another reference to the Mindshare Bundle anywhere, and according to Google it appears nowhere else. (Now it will appear here too, so goodbye Googlewhack.) Any ideas?