Getting Started, Documentation, Tips & Tricks

Hey guys, as the title says I'm thinking about collecting some computers. Specifically I'm leaning towards some UNIX workstations.

So far my dream list is:

SGI Fuel
Sun Ultra 25 or 45
HP c8000
G5 Quad (I know this isn't a workstation or UNIX-based)
IBM Intellistation 185 or 285

I have some questions mainly regarding purchasing these. I know that single processor models are generally cheaper, but can I upgrade to dual processors on the Fuel and HP c8000? If some of these do not come with the native OS, at least in the interim, which Linux distributions play nice with the somewhat exotic architectures? Currently I'm thinking of using gentoo, I'm just a bit worried about the power consumption and heat on some of these if they need to compile updates over night.

Also, I have seen some very high pricings on the Sun models. I understand that they (and the rest of the computers on my list) are relatively recent machines, but all of the Sun Ultra 45's on ebay are listed at several grand or more, while I have seen listings for most of the others for under 1000. Is this a sane price for these? If so, I guess I will cross that off the list. But if ebay is highly inflated, where should I be looking? Intellistations and HP workstations also seem to be very scarce on ebay, could any of you guys point me in the right direction to look?

Thanks for your time.

No. Fuel is entry level in that generation of systems. Tezro is the multi-CPU option.


Linux generally sucks on non mainstream platforms, why run Linux on MIPS when you can run Linux on Intel? What is the point? Support is woeful for propriety devices on Linux. You can't play with SpaceBalls or Crystal Eyes Shutter glasses on Linux (See our wiki here for info on those).. As for software ... Maya, Shake and a lot of the interesting software will not run on Linux/MIPS but does on IRIX. Linux on any other platform than x86 is pretty much the same, just not as well developed, and you'll hate people who embedded x86 assembler in software and just assume the whole world runs Intel just because they do. 4DWM is a different window manager and IRIX has a different feel to it than Linux. Yes I have run the Gentoo Linux/MIPS Live CD on my Octane, but I got bored with it quickly...



Where are you located? I don't use my Intellistation that much.

One of my PIs was pulled from a dumpster behind the SGI regional office here and traded to me. Friends of friends and the hardware for sale forum here are other options.
Maybe try Craigslist, gumtree or ebid or something like that close to where you live.

A couple of years ago I had a handful of Sun machines and could barely give them away...

R.

Welcome Feelies! Click on "User Control Panel" in the upper right of this site, then "Profile" in the left side "Options" box. Fill in the Location: field with your general location on Earth (or where ever). Might save some time down the road.

The Power Mac G5 running OS X is certainly UNIX-based, though maybe not USDA 100% Grade A Certified Organic UNIX™. And while I've only had my hands on the G5 Xserve and Intel-based Mac Pro, I'd say they're built to traditional workstation/server standards. But remember, this is your collection so you call the shots.

*snort*



Didn't the G5's have some terrible leakage problems wrt. the the liquid cooling system? Perhaps that's what you mean by traditional standards...

Fuel: no, it's single processor only.
C8000: only if your CPU(s) have the L2 cache. AIUI, the 1.0GHz PA-8900 with only L1 cache only supports a single CPU, while the CPUs with 64MB L2 cache (in both 1.0 and 1.1GHz models) support two sockets. Note, however, that the PA-8900 is a dual-core chip so even with only a single-socket populated, you still have two cores. (A two-chip, four-core C8000 is everyone's dream, though, isn't it?)


The Ultra 45s have really, really held their value well. I've never seen one at anything approaching an affordable price. You might consider backing off a step to the slightly older Sun Blade 2500. After seeing all the Ultra 45s for a couple thousand bucks, I got myself a Blade 2500 (2x1.28GHz, 8GB RAM, XVR-1200 graphics, 18GB HDD) for very cheap (under $50) instead.


If you're patient, ebay can be great. I still haven't found a great deal on an Intellistation myself, but all the systems in my signature have come from ebay. And most were under $100 --- including both the aforementioned Sun Blade 2500 and my HP C8000 (1x1.1GHz, 16GB RAM, FireGL T2 graphics, 146GB HDD). In my experience, if you wait for the right auction you can get a great deal.

Isn't the Ultra 45 the last of the Ultra workstations? In that case it's like the Tezro which are also very expensive.

Here's one (not my sale): http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/computers-e ... ra-45.html

Asking price is 650EUR. No idea if that's a sane price

Wow, thanks for all of the great replies.


It looks like Utra 40s are at least an order of magnitude cheaper than 45s. Now I'm tempted to give up on SPARC and snag a 40. I really like the look of the Ultra 20/25/40/45 case, so that's why I'm hesitant to get a Blade 2500.

The Quad-core models have some of the lowest failure rates across the board compared to any of the G5's. The majority of problems was from the earlier liquid cooled models.

Oh I know that linux isn't ideal for these machines, I was just asking because if they don't come with a hard drive or OS installed I'd like to play with them before I get a hold of their proper OS.

I live in Nebraska. What model of Intellistation do you have?

Hello,

forget about putting something different from hp-ux on a c8000, unless you like to suffer ( yes, there is linux for pa, but on the c8000 not even the onboard serial ports are supported. anyway the considerations others made stand, about not using it on not x86).
Finding a copy of hpux is anyway not a real issue (and the base os is licensed with the hw).

Actually I have two


(Don't do as I do, do as I say).

9112-265 running AIX with missing NFS network mounts...
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16726232

Forget it, they are insanely expensive to ship, even across town, IBM stuff is really really heavy. If you were at least in Oz, I'd consider it.
I have been disappointed with the build quality of the plastics of the Intellistations, the server stuff is really solid though.

I've also got a Xeon based x3550 running Linux and a few other O/Ses under VMWare, Virtualbox or whatever.
If I want to play with AIX, I fire up my F80. These days I am just too busy.

R.

I have to ask ... what's the point ? If you just "like the look" and are a cheapskate, then buy some cardboard, bend it up to the shape of a 45 and spray paint it silver. Do a red one and a blue one and a black one and zowee ! You've got a collection !

What the hell's the point of a "collection" anyhow ? What are you planning to do, turn it on when friends come over so you can say, "Wo, look at that desktop ! Isn't that cool ? Now over here we have the ..."

With rare exceptions, collection = bullshit. Why not choose something you like and actually use it ?

The Octane 2 can also do dual CPUs at up to 600MHz. Which is pretty cool. I mean, I've got one. I like it pretty well...

And as jpstewart said you might want to consider a Sun Blade 2500 instead of an Ultra 45, I bagged a dual 1.6 with 12 gig of RAM and an XVR-1200 for way less than a thousand on ebay not too long ago.

And, in deference to hamei mine are not a collection, I used them both to do some serious sh1t...

Ssssshhhhh! Collectors are a boon!! They generously keep these machines out of the recyclers' yards and landfills at great personal expense. Then eventually they come to their senses, or get married, or die - and years after we'd given up on ever owning a decent example of a Banana Jr. 2000, Fate guides one into our sweaty little hands. To use ...

I have to ask...why shit post?

You see there's a lot of logical jumps you're making in your post. First of all I never said I only care about looks it's merely a factor and it's silly to think that not wanting to spend 3k+ is being a cheapskate. You're also implicitly stating that a collection cannot or at least will not be used, which is also ridiculous. I do plan on using these computers, but I'm glad you've decided to project your own insecurities/guilt onto me. I very much doubt you are making full use of any computer you own, luckily no one here has decided to shit on you over that fact.

I don't care if I'm new, I won't put up with your shit.

I used to run Gentoo on my Octanes, it would have been abut the 2.6.5 (linux kernel version) era.. one of the guys in our LUG even had X working with most of KDE. Mips-Linux is interesting but you will have more fun with Irix.

I would skip the G5 and go for a mac pro. An early mac pro is about the same price and vastly faster (and more useful) than a high-end G5 (some people here will throw things at me for saying that). Also, avoid the G5's with Delphi radiators as they tend to leak, look for one fitted with a panasonic cooler or air-cooled model.

It may not be SysV but I consider OSX to be fairly standard unix. I like macports which is familiar if you use other BSDs. And there are some here who say it's not a workstation for real men with lots of chest hair unless it requires 3 phase, 480/600v power and at least 3 technicians to install it. (my workstation is a mac air so YMMV...)

... and Fafnir grumbles in his sleep, dreams of bright gold rudely slashed by wrath's sharp point ...

Where was I for this thread? Anyway, the G5 quad gets a bad rap because of the slower units which had the Delphi LCSes. The quads almost all have the much more reliable Panasonic ones and have a better power supply as well. My bought-new quad G5 is still running and is still my daily driver almost seven years after I got it.

Yeah, the Mac Pro is faster, but it's a fairly uninteresting Xeon design. (commodorejohn, why do I have deja vu?) The G5s aren't what they should have been, but the good ones are solid machines, and they're at least somewhat interesting to the collector (which, I assume, is what the OP is after). The quad G5 and the dual 2.3 are the ones worth owning and have the best track record.

I'm not a fan of the Intellistation, but mostly because of the software, not the hardware (which is solid). AIX hasn't been a good workstation OS in a long time, so you'd be running CRUX or something on that, and at that point why bother fiddling with what's basically an exotic Linux port? If you want a PPC 970 machine, stick with the Power Mac G5 and run OS X, and enjoy the software library and MacPorts.

I like the Fuel a lot. You'll pay a premium for a decently configured unit, and as mentioned they're uniprocessor or bust, but I'm pretty happy with mine and they're not hard to work on and maintain. I got lucky and found both a 600MHz/V12 machine and a 700MHz CPU PIMM for a nice price, and added FireWire, extra RAM and audio. You could go whole hog and get a Tezro if you really want multiple CPUs, but the Fuel is still very nice.

I own a C8000 and I really like it, but the Fuel replaced it in my KVM slot because the Fuel "does more." The C8000 basically only runs 11i TCOE; forget about Linux. While it has some very nice hardware (mine is a dual-core PA-8900 with a FireGL card), it uses more juice than even my G5 does (!), and HP-UX is about as bog-standard CDE as you get. You can install a second processor with a special tool, but that makes it even more hungry, and even the low-end PA-8800 versions were dual core also. I didn't use it for anything other than showing off.

Question on the G5 Quad... do you use OSX on it ( and if so, presumably 10.5.8 ) or are there any distributions of Linux that work fully on them? I have a G5 Quad too (there were a bunch about to get put in the dumpster at work, so I rescued one) but am finding that support for applications in 10.5.8 is starting to get pretty limiting, and at least Linux would be 'current' on it!

I run 10.4.11 because I still use Classic. ISTR that Kubuntu works on them reasonably well, but I'm happy with 10.4.

Ah, I see that you have met hamei, our local grumpy old fart (at least I envision him as grumpy and smelling of fart). But we like him for it and he does have some wisdom in there.. I'm sure quite sure of it..

Welcome to the forums.

You'd be grumpy too if you had to watch your country turn into a pile of shit

My parents' generation jumped out of perfectly good airplanes into jungles to fight fascism at great cost to their lives, so that we could become the worst, most two-faced lying hypocritical piece of shit country in the entire world. A teacher of constitutional law at the head of the country saying "Oh, we don't need to be concerned with his legal rights." It's appalling. Absolutely appalling.

Yes, grumpy. With good reason.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled acquisitive-yuppy thread ...