Everything Else

Of course you don't have too.. it's you own business.. BUT..

When people come round your house and say.. 'wow .. what do you do with that stuff?' [Your' SGI gear]

What do you say?

I like to call it 'my dark side.'

I have a laptop, wii U, switch, and PS2.

I use them for the normal things that normal people use their normal computery-type things for. Tho the only game I've played recently on the PS2 is Rez and that was several months ago.

I'm glad I went through the big-iron-hoarding phase, but I'm also glad I've grown out of it My electric bill is rarely over $50 now.

Nobody asks me questions like that.


___edit:___
Oh shit, I forgot about the apple IIe.

To which most people just think it's cool. To most people it's about on the same level as the PS2 or any other old game console.

I still maintain that there is no application that an apple 2 can't do. Only limits to the imagination.

uunix wrote: When people come round your house and say.. 'wow .. what do you do with that stuff?' [Your' SGI gear]

What do you say?

"Everyone needs a hobby."

Some people seem to think that you need to "do" something with computers, because those people only see computers as tools at the office. But not people like us Nekochanners. I like the old systems because they're very different from the stuff I use for daily work & productivity. Learning about those differences is something I'm interested in that's "not work". Why do some people own golf clubs? Why do some people own fishing gear? To play around with and have some fun. Same with computers. I don't understand why they have to be used exclusively for productive work. Fun and relaxation is a valid excuse to own golf clubs and fishing rods, so why not computers?

I think the best answer I ever heard (probably on the cctalk mailing list) was, "Some guys like to fix up old cars. I like to fix up old computers." That seems to get the point across.

I just say - "They're like classic cars in as much they remind us of times when there was a certain romance about motoring". Most people relate to the notion of nostalgia and will nod and reply: "Oh wow, so what's special about these machines then?" - opening the door to endless hours of fun

I say "some people collect spoons, some people collect tractors, I happen to collect computers".

I've also explained that this is stuff I wanted but couldn't afford when new, so now is my chance

guardian452 wrote: I have a laptop, wii U, switch, and PS2.

Boring. Although the U and Switch are well worth the money.

guardian452 wrote: I'm glad I went through the big-iron-hoarding phase, but I'm also glad I've grown out of it My electric bill is rarely over $50 now.

I don't pay for electricity, my roommate does. And when he complains about the power bill, I point out that he cranks the heat and air more than I do and I have zone data from my thermostat to prove it. In lieu of running air when running old computers I crack open windows and put my big window fans in them and vent the air that way. So in my case justification of electrical bills don't worry me. We pay around $250 for three people, including me running big iron, my girlfriend and our roommate/owner of the place that has lots of flood lamps and incandescents when he could have LEDs.

If I had a girlfriend try to force my hobbies out, I'd gladly dump her ass in a second. My girlfriend currently made a big stink about the state of my office and I took her into her walk in closet and pointed out the 50 pairs of shoes and the receipts from her shopping for clothes. She has many more clothes than me, and with that kind of justification she gets off my back readily especially since when she's off work I actually spend time with her instead of hobbies.

For most people my age, their first computer ran Windows 7 or 10. If they're into computers like most of my friends, they probably built it from random Kijiji parts or if they had a little more to spend whatever Canada Computers had on sale. They put all the parts together, never even had to open the BIOS, and now they're happily browsing Reddit and playing Steam games on their Core i5. Most people my age have never used computer hardware older than their mom's 2006 Vista netbook or the school's Pentium 4s. That's not to say they're not computer enthusiasts, or that they're stupid, but their enjoyment of computing comes from seeing really big benchmark numbers, setting up cool desktop backgrounds and customizations, or if they're into programming writing Node.JS Discord bots, complaining about PHP, or making 4MB websites with more CSS than HTML. They look at something like an Octane and think "300mhz, only 1GB RAM, old looking software, weighs 60lbs, case is all plastic with no RGB lighting, can't even render Instagram". Even if they're into computers, the aspects they find interesting are not the same ones which we do. Stuff like how the later systems' architecture favors throughput over processing or how the O2 is arguably more centered around it's CRM graphics chipset than it's CPU get lost behind easily understandable numbers like "300mhz" or "1997". To most of my friends, different/interesting/forgotten approaches to computing look backwards and ridiculous, not novel or ahead of their time.

Getting back to how I explain my hardware, my friends obviously aren't bothered by me owning things that don't affect them, but they probably think I'm strange for owning a ton of old computers (8 SGIs + parts, Sun Blade 2000, 7 ThinkPads, 5 old Apple machines, Atari 600xl, etc) and not just selling them to replace my X220 with a MacBook Pro (something I actually used to have, but replaced with an X220 ). My family is fine with the machines so long as I keep them in my bedroom or "lab" (more of an asssorted mix of working and nonworking systems of numerous ages with monitors on top of everything and random ethernet cables all over the floor, rather than your traditional idea of a "computer lab" like in a school). There's plenty of room for as many workstations as I could realistically want (though not enough room to display them as nicely as jan-jaap has), unless I want to recreate that SGI 750 cluster that used like half of the 750s ever produced. If I wanted to get larger systems, according to my measurements I have plausibly clearable spaces in my bedroom for up to one Onyx2/Origin2000 deskside, one Onyx/Crimson/PowerSeries/Onyx2/Origin2000 deskside, and one Origin2000/Onyx2/Origin3000/Onyx3000/Onyx4 (but not Onyx or PowerSeries, too deep) rack, though I don't see myself owning all of those systems anytime soon. When I rearranged the room in December, I planned it specifically to support up to 3 larger scale systems. The lab is really packed, and even finding space for Octanes can be hard, so I don't think any large systems could go down there.

Well since the end of last year I've dumped (sold):
-iphone, ipad, watch, mac pro, macbookpro (still have AEBS!)
- xbox one, 360, and PS4.

Gee-whiz fact: the latency on the Wii U's gamepad's wireless display is *less* than any HDMI TV (admittedly, a low bar). It also doubles as a TV remote which is very handy because I haven't seen mine in years.

Raion-Fox wrote:

guardian452 wrote: I have a laptop...

Boring...

I like my laptop. Furmark will trip the power strip circuit breaker So it's not that boring. But it still has a high WAF .

For most people my age, their first computer ran Windows 7 or 10

How old are you, 6?
My first computer was my parent's old 386 that I got when they bought a new pentium in the early 90's. It was a HUGE deal for a kid to have his own PC back in those days. I suddenly don't feel so young anymore.

My girlfriend currently made a big stink about the state of my office and I took her into her walk in closet and pointed out the 50 pairs of shoes and the receipts from her shopping for clothes.

My wife complains I have too many shoes. Sneakerhead. But I'm not complaining.

I'm 14. Most of my friends used a computer before that, but most kids get their first personal machine around the age of 10 or 11 or so when they start Grade 6 or 7 (I have had them for far longer than that, though I bought by first "actually modern" post Core2 one, still my main Xeon rig, when I was 12), so that was 3-4 years ago. That means 2013 or 2014, so most people I know's first personal machines were Windows 8-powered convertible tablet things, or maybe Chromebooks.

A lot of people got hand-me-down Dells or HPs with 7 though.

I just say "Well among other things these computers did all the special effects for the Matrix trilogy, what cool stuff have people used your computers to do?"

Well there's two parts to it. First of all as others have said, it's a hobby. Thankfully my wife understands my hobby and doesn't mind my man-cave (within reason).

For what I do with them, allsorts! I enjoy playing around with IRIX, scripting in Perl, trying to port/compile certain apps (despite my limited knowledge here), I use my Indigo2 for ripping vinyls (though I do usually do the final clean of the audio with Audition on my PC). I don't do a huge amount of productive things with them, but in short, they're a fun hobby.

It's the same reason some people buy classic cars. You know the performance is poor, the economy isn't great and they're way behind with fancy gadgets, but they look cool, they're enjoyable and nostalgic to drive, and tinkering around with them is good fun that some people enjoy.

Dodoid wrote: For most people my age, their first computer ran Windows 7 or 10. If they're into computers like most of my friends, they probably built it from random Kijiji parts or if they had a little more to spend whatever Canada Computers had on sale. They put all the parts together, never even had to open the BIOS, and now they're happily browsing Reddit and playing Steam games on their Core i5. Most people my age have never used computer hardware older than their mom's 2006 Vista netbook or the school's Pentium 4s.

The best investment my parents ever did to my education was to buy a spare computer At the time, a new computer would cost 3000-4000 USD, and I'm Brazilian, so it would be the same effort as saving 10000 USD so to say.

They let me break the computer as many times as I could (I reinstalled Windows 95 so many times I know the serial number by heart to this day). And then I would go to my uncle's place, who is an engineer and had many computers, and would keep breaking things. He had a laptop with a modem and we would try to extract the wires from public pay phones to get on Internet for free. Remember there was no Google at the time.

The knowledge I acquired during that time on how computers work, you know, the knack of it, helped me get a job in Europe, my employer sponsored my visa and now I have a very comfortable life and the income to spare to buy even more computers. =))))))))))))

Things back home are not going well economically, and I'm able to look after my brother and give my parents a bit of ease of mind things will be looked after when they are gone.

And the knowledge you get from older computers you won't get with modern things - there are no IRQ conflicts to solve, no cryptic error messages, no jumpers, no floppy disk swapping, no spending a year playing games without sound because you couldn't figure out how to get the sound card to work, etc..

I guarantee you will get a fantastic job in the future, doing something you enjoy doing enormously and making good friends on the way. So, if they ever ask you again why do you do this, you can just say it's your education.

Shiunbird wrote: I guarantee you will get a fantastic job in the future

Bah, I am afraid nowadays all the knowledge acquired on how to reinstall windows doesn't pay you back, especially if your salary is three times expensive than employing three Chinese guys for the same amount of money. They have also mastered how to reinstall Windows (and also Linux, LOL), and they are more efficiently and cheap than you. Today you are requested to do more advanced stuff, and it happens that almost the most part of the serious part of engineering is made abroad, imported, so again and you won't be paid of it (thanks to China, again).

Life has become complex. Especially life on computers. Therefore a fantastic job should be searched in the field of food, since you can stay without a computer, but everybody must eat!

Knowing how to prepare delicious dishes, and ice-creams, can't be overridden by the so called "Chinese's art of being masters at copying for replicating and releasing cheaper".

jpstewart wrote: "Everyone needs a hobby."

Sure, everyone needs a hobby. Sometime a hobby can make you more strange.

My next-door believes she can have an artist profile feature, so she’s now following the surrealist painter and sculptor H.R. Giger, the one who created all the alien creatures we can see in Ridley Scott’s sci-fi/horror classic Alien.

I don't know why she loves H.R. Giger’s style, for me it's one of nightmarish and surreal landscapes and figures which some have described as Satanic, perverse and disturbing.

She has changed, her hobby has changed her style, converting her flower-power picturing style (at the beginning she was attracted by flowers, like an hippie) into something in where she emulates Giger in combining biological anatomy with the mechanical to create works of art that have become favorite of certain death metal, and she is now experimenting strange airbrushing techniques to create monochromatic pieces she has, of late, switched over to using pastels, markers and inks.

Last time I said "disgusting", she replied “ all the beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. And that's my hobby, in first place ".

Sure, her terrifying hobby.

Y888099 wrote:

Shiunbird wrote: I guarantee you will get a fantastic job in the future

Bah, I am afraid nowadays all the knowledge acquired on how to reinstall windows doesn't pay you back

Because it's so hard to stick in the disk your computer came with, and leave the thing alone for 4 hours? Is there seriously *any* knowledge to be had there when the 3-step-instructions are printed on the case of the (CD/USB drive) that came with the machine? Actually, some computers just come with a little pamphlet telling you to hold down F8 or cmd+R and they do everything over the internet.

Bah, I got an "D" in high school computer class (mainly involved understanding the vagaries in office '97) and I turned out alright. All that experience taught me was that adults are hopelessly clueless about using new technology. Now that I'm an adult myself, I'd say that's more true than ever.

Knowing how to prepare delicious dishes, and ice-creams, can't be overridden by the so called "Chinese's art of being masters at copying for replicating and releasing cheaper".

It sure can! All these prepackaged prepared meal places like blue apron, purple carrot, etc, are chomping at the bit to figure it out. And hitting it big in the restaurant industry is about as realistic as becoming a footballer. You can make good tips as a waiter, if you work at the right place.

A much better experience would be learning chinese and learning to work directly with manufacturers, learn how to purchase and import your own products. Start with some vendor from alibaba on a small project. I also recommend you try this after getting fucked over by a couple american vendors, so you understand why everything is so much better from china even with language barrier, quality problems, and shipping headaches. Even learning the language is largely overblown. Any chinese businessman will speak english...

Just remember the old adage, if technology makes your job easier, it will eventually make it irrelevant.

Y888099 wrote: Bah, I am afraid nowadays all the knowledge acquired on how to reinstall windows doesn't pay you back, especially if your salary is three times expensive than employing three Chinese guys for the same amount of money. They have also mastered how to reinstall Windows (and also Linux, LOL), and they are more efficiently and cheap than you

I guess what Dodoid is doing goes far beyond installing Windows.

I particularly became the person who is called when the three Chinese (or my own peers) screw up, and write the automation pieces that avoids future screw-ups (plus deployment of enterprise-level solutions but that's another part of the story).

Automation and ease of access to knowledge will kill many jobs, but there's room for creativity even in technology. Creativity is what drives things forward and get people coming with even more intelligent ways of doing things.

We used to have MANY colleagues in Toronto, I watched most of them go, except the ones that were creative and could add value differently. There are no Windows installers left over there...

I'm 23, and my first computer I had contact with was an Atari 400, or so I remember. My family had various machines throughout my childhood but the A3000UX became mine because nobody else wanted it. I mostly stuck around in workbench but I still have the AmigaUnix manual somewhere.

The 3000UX sadly disappeared, probably sold for pennies to help fund my father's purchase of a then state of the art PIII 800MHz with 128mb of ram and Windows ME.

Older isn't necessarily worse in all ways, is one way I say it. I did own briefly at 1987 Supra twin turbo and that was fast. I went 157 in it and beat a Mustang Cobra. The only problem with the far it had 400k miles, interior was completely worn out and the engine had been rebuilt 200k ago. So I resold it for more than I paid for it. That car handled better than many modern cars and was far faster though it's acceleration was pitiful by comparison. This wasn't a quarter mile race after all. It took me a good three miles to outspeed the 'stang.

I refuse to drive cars newer than 2011 due to the government thinking it has to hold my hand with electronic stability control that cannot be disabled. The Miata has no ABS and I prefer it that way as ABS has directly contributed to my only wreck, where I rear ended an SUV in my Lancer because I hit a floor joint in a tunnel which tripped the ABS and made me lose control.

I will refuse drive or own a self driving car. I will fight tooth and nail to keep my right to drive a manually driven car, and if one day a country stops allowing it, I'll simply leave that country.

I imagine at some point there will come a day where I will stop buying new computer and network equipment and forgo a modern cellular phone for today's equivalent of the N900.

People say the automation innovations will lead the way to a post work post scarciry world. I call bullshit. We won't master so called quantum circuits in our lifetimes so we're going to be eventually stuck without process shrinks to give Moore's law credibility, because we can only mathematically approximate and hypothesize quantum circuits. To build something like that requires materials we will likely never possess. Carbon nanotubes are toxic.

I have no problem doing that one day. I refuse to live in any 'utopia' because we were warned decades ago about the real implications of that.

I would use a self driving car only if were open source and stored maps locally when parked so as to avoid any wireless communications while driving. If we get a Google car that is always online, constantly invading your privacy, working off of unknown algorithms, and has about as much security as your doghouse, there's no way I'm even standing in front of that thing while parked.

Right, the last auto accident I was involved in I was walking in a crosswalk and was hit by a driver DUI (on oxys) who was turning left and didn't stop. The police let her go without even a citation. At least she was honest and admitted she shouldn't have been driving. I hope things like this can be prevented by AVs.

I'm 23... I went 157 in it and beat a Mustang Cobra...I rear ended an SUV in my Lancer because I hit a floor joint in a tunnel which tripped the ABS and made me lose control.

Sometimes I weep for humanity. So did insurance buy that BS about your ABS not working, or was it just an excuse for mommy and daddy? Because whenever a young 20-something rear-ends an innocent victim, they always have someone else to blame. Some of us here actually know how ABS pumps work because we've had to sit through many long design meetings about their control software. So you were already on the brake and beyond the limits of the car on a public road. Just admit it.

So you're a walking, talking statistic driving society and regulation *towards* driverless cars and excessive surveillance devices.

I refuse to drive cars newer than 2011 due to the government thinking it has to hold my hand with electronic stability control that cannot be disabled.

I suggest you take the tinfoil hat off and stop reading internet screeds from salty idiots who think because they worked at a goofy lube for two months and learned how to change oil and tires they know more than the combined knowledge of an industry that has existed for well over a century. It's 2017 with 2018 models coming out, and there's still no trouble disabling these devices for whatever purpose you desire.

Dodoid wrote: I would use a self driving car only if were open source and stored maps locally when parked so as to avoid any wireless communications while driving. If we get a Google car that is always online, constantly invading your privacy, working off of unknown algorithms, and has about as much security as your doghouse, there's no way I'm even standing in front of that thing while parked.

Interesting. Some of the bigger issues with AVs today is (1) LIDAR range is only a couple hundred feet, which limits applications mainly to low-speed or controlled access highways. If more people knew what the Tesla S could actually "see" they would not be nearly so trusting with autopilot. (2) computer vision having great difficulty recognizing unusual situations. V2V communication can greatly reduce the scope of these problems so to deny it creates extra challenge. There's no shortage of problems to solve in this field.

Since this technology is inevitable, rather than bellyache about it why not go to a trade expo such as http://www.autonomousregulationscongress.com and work on improving it. Bring resume. Y'all whine your pants off but why not learn about it and make things better?

I might be there representing both a manufacturer of vehicles, some of which are upfitted with AV equipment, and a fleet operator. We could have lunch. Detroit isn't that far from Ottawa. You could talk to some other vendors and see what they think about open source AVs. Because I genuinely find this idea (open source AVs) interesting but it's not really my field.

I am also fascinated by AVs, and I don't have anything against them at all. I just want to ensure that the car I'm riding in isn't easily exploitable. Nobody can write bug free code, so while there's a lot to be gained by looking closely at your code and trying to think of what might be a security hole, I wouldn't trust the vehicle to communicate wirelessly. Some guy by the side of the road could well disable the brakes with the right hardware and a good exploit. IMO, V2V communication is too big of a risk.

Udacity claims to be facilitating collaboration on an open source autonomous vehicle, and seem to have solved some but not all of the problems. Not sure if it will ever produce a real, physical car, but I would be interested in following the project.
https://www.udacity.com/self-driving-car

I have occasionally heard that as well. I just explain that it's fun and the computers are more interesting than modern ones. They are more involved and that makes them fun. Lets face it. Modern computers are bland and not very exciting. But the older ones and SGI's in particular have interesting and unique designs not seen elsewhere in the known universe.

Shiunbird wrote: no spending a year playing games without sound because you couldn't figure out how to get the sound card to work, etc..
.

You did that too? In 2001 on my first computer with a Pentium 1 and Windows ME. I could not get a sound driver onto that computer since although it had a modem, I didn't have an RJ-11 cable long enough to reach to my room. The sound driver was too big to fit on a floppy and I didn't have anything more advanced for removable storage. So I played Wolf3D, Roller Coaster Tycoon, Streets of Sim City and Midtown Madness 2(barely) with no sound. Until one night quite a while later I installed Windows XP home and it had support out of the box.

Raion-Fox wrote: I

I will refuse drive or own a self driving car. I will fight tooth and nail to keep my right to drive a manually driven car, and if one day a country stops allowing it, I'll simply leave that country.

I imagine at some point there will come a day where I will stop buying new computer and network equipment and forgo a modern cellular phone for today's equivalent of the N900.

I won't be doing the self driving car thing either and am also wary of cars with steer and brake by wire technologies. I don't presently have a cellphone, but if I did, it would be a dumb phone, no smartphones allowed. If a day comes where modern computer equipment is too tarted up with crap and spying, then I will be distancing myself from it completely. I will not be railroaded into software as a service either.

Dodoid wrote: Getting back to how I explain my hardware, my friends obviously aren't bothered by me owning things that don't affect them, but they probably think I'm strange for owning a ton of old computers (8 SGIs + parts, Sun Blade 2000, 7 ThinkPads, 5 old Apple machines, Atari 600xl, etc) and not just selling them to replace my X220 with a MacBook Pro (something I actually used to have, but replaced with an X220 ). My family is fine with the machines so long as I keep them in my bedroom or "lab" (more of an asssorted mix of working and nonworking systems of numerous ages with monitors on top of everything and random ethernet cables all over the floor, rather than your traditional idea of a "computer lab" like in a school).

My friends and others I know don't seem to understand the computer hobby, but whatever. I sleep with an Octane II in the room, going 24/7. Been up for over 200 days straight. My cables are also on the floor, but I really need to get around to neatly bundling them and running them along the baseboard. All my computers are in my room, but I don't run them all at the same time. Dragged an old computer desk out of the basement to store the other SGIs in. They have their own dedicated area now.