Everything Else

They still cost a lot used, despite having been first released in 1993! I am not letting go of mine, and I am keeping an eye out for a spare (thankfully these things seem to last forever, unless they go swimming). I also have an HP 49G, which I hate; they made it dual algebraic / RPN, and in doing so sacked some of the usability of the RPN. They also used some nasty rubber buttons. I started on a 48G, it went for a swim, I got the 49G, hated it, and then got a 48gx. Maybe I will try to sell the 49, or trade it for another 48gx...

Quick question: how brain dead is the grading of the test? Working with the boson software, it does not always seem to recognize that there is more than one right answer. For example, using sub-interfaces s0.1, s0.2 &, s0.3 vs s0.2, s0.3, & s0.4 when setting up a frame relay network, or that there are many ways of setting up an ACL that does what you want. Also, if you have a large simulated set up problem (e.g 4 routers & 4 switches), and get one number wrong (e.g. mask 24 instead of 25), do you get the whole problem wrong, like you do in the boson testsim?

Do they have an intelligent way to grade the real tests, or do you have to worry about the computer program marking you wrong because you did not happen to write an identical ACL to the one they wrote? I am guessing that they would have some way of properly grading them, but I don't credit cisco with copious quantities of intelligence.

Got a job offer for .net

downloaded the free tools and videos from asp.net

in one video the guy writes userCunt instead of userCount in the var for a whole module. but that was ok, I like humor

In the other one, they show a slide with a super dumbed down version of how a browser request works, then the guy explains it for some minutes. and at the end of that, cames a text ...wait, i will copy exactly:

"Honestly, don't worry a lot about this ... you can write powerful applications without knowing all that!"

...that was official documentation. they go greats lenghts to hide how a browser works from the programmer. So, i just put in a high salary demand with the resume and never heard of them again

You have to count that you will debug code from other people, that probably wrote dozens of bugged web applications because they don't even know what a request, or HTTP is.

...basicaly the same with VB and memory allocation back in the 90's. It's all nice until you have to dwel with the win32 API, then it gets ugly.

I've been doing ASP then .NET for the last five years. I have sample code to do just about anything you'll come across. If you have a specific question, send me a pm.

Well, I took the test today and passed it! Their simulated router tests are not as complex as expected, though I was unsure if I was supposed to do a copy running-config startup-config on a couple of the questions.

The cisco test program decided that my good understanding of planning and designing outweighed my lack in implementation and operation. I guess that if I get a job with cisco hardware my employer will just have to put up with my checking a book or webpage for the syntax of a few of the commands. If I get an evil manager that refuses to let me use documentation then I am doomed, but I should otherwise be fine. Besides, I doubt that there are very many real life situations where you are given 5 variations of the same command and have to choose the one with the correct syntax.

Now I need to try to get a real job. I want one in a town in the mountains of Colorado (i.e. NOT the Denver / CO springs / FT Collins area). I fear that this may be asking too much, but it is worth a try.

Congratulations.

Congratulations on passing! One thing to remember is that for most tech jobs the expectation is that staff know a wide range of products (Good chances your network admin post will have you looking after some Juniper/Extreme/Foundry etc etc too). It isn't so much knowing every single undocumented feature or quirky wierdness out there, but knowing where to go to find that information. A manager doesn't need to know every single detail of the job function/team he is managing, but he does need to know which team members have the various skills to get stuff done, and you need to approach situations in the same fashion. Get to know the Cisco site layout, tech support areas, main independent support forums (start lurking and making note of answers to their FAQs) and how to go about searching for info. You'll find most CCIEs still having to look up references from time to time.

The Cisco books are very good, but as with anything nothing beats hands-on experience and time in the field. Start preparing now for the CCNP. Get the router sims, maybe even buy some cheap routers off eBay or from liquidation - setup a home network with various protocols, then maybe ask a mate to serial in and break something for you so you have to diagnose & fix. This is a great way of learning without having your salary on the line.

Good luck with the job hunt.

Nick

So, how do you feel about China ?

Humm... While I have sometimes considered leaving the US, I don't think that China would be the best place for me. I doubt that their government would like me, and vice versa. Also, I am terrible at learning new languages, and the difference between the oriental l languages and English makes them especially hard.

Out of curiosity, would jobs in China actually compete with jobs in the U.S.? In the U.S., the only time you really hear about jobs in China is when some large cooperation is accused of employing sweat shop labor. Also, those stories tend to be lacking in real information.

Was there ever any doubt?

Let me know when you start up on the CCNP - I'm sitting for the fourth exam in less than a month and after that I might have some equipment to "liquidate." As always, drop a line if you have any questions.

Congrats.

I don't know if I will do a CCDP or not; it depends on what job I end up with. If my manager wants me to I will. If they don't I probably will not.

I picked up a CCDA self study book thinking that it would be more interested in it than memorizing IOS commands. Glancing at the first chapter I almost ran away screaming due to a buzz-word overflow. For example, here is a partial list of the buzz-words that show up in the chapter one 10 question "Do I Know This Already" quiz:

customer focus (5 times)
key constituencies (4 times)
leverages (1 time)
competitive advantage (1 times)
economical constraints (1 times)
decentralization (2 times)
centralization (1 time)
continuous standardization (2 times)
core versus context (5 times)
core versus edge (2 times)
market parity (3 times)

I will look at the next few chapters hoping that since the buzz-words lack substance they all floated to the top of the book, leaving the content in the rest of the of the book. If they have some really good information later in the book I may go through it and then take the CCDA test. However, I want sold information on how networks are designed, not a pile of buzz-words large enough to obfuscate the US national debt.

The other thing I wonder about with putting huge amounts of effort into cisco certifications is that I am unsure if they will hold their value for another 20 years. It seems to me that cisco was really on top of things 10 years ago, but they seem to have stagnated. On the other hand, maybe I am just biased because they required me to spend lots of time studying ISDN, which I think was one massive waste of time. How many people do you know that are installing ISDN on new routers so that they can use it as a back up network connection?

DraconianTimes - I agree with you about the importance of knowing a wide range of products. I generally try to keep any complex setup as vender independent as possible. It amazes me how much some people will put up with vender lock in.

The CCDA/CCDP is more aimed at the sales and high-level architecture type people. If you want to get your hands dirty in techy network stuff, stick with the CCNP route. If you're interested in the security aspects & firewalls side, go for the CCSP. However, for the security route also be sure to get experience in Checkpoint's stuff too as many orgs use both.

Nick

Actually, this is just a hint of things to come. CCNP and CCIE Voice cover ISDN in much greater depth. The coverage is CCNA is entirely to provide a foundation for Voice/VoIP coverage in later certs.

With regard to Cisco's "stagnation", I think that is more a lack of time spent around larger networks. Most ISPs and the vast majority of large corporate networks run on at least a Cisco foundation, if not all Cisco equipment.

HP really is the only competitor that I've noticed making headway, and that's been only at Universities that were offered amazing prices.

I mostly see Juniper/Extreme/Foundry in (very) large ISPs, and only at the core where a Cisco 6500/12k would otherwise be.

At the edge, in the wireless, firewall and VoIP arena, there is an amazing amount of diversity. I see a bit of 3Com, Nokia, Fortinet, Juniper, Shoretel, Polycom, Nortel etc. sprinkled about.

For the most part though, it's Cisco. PIX/ASA, 3600-7500 routers, 6500/12k core switches, 3500/3700 distribution and 2900 at the access layer.

I wish that they would either give up on ISDN or make it something worthwhile. It would be cool if you could have a ISDN / DSL cross where you had 50 64KBps channels for the cost of 3Mbps DSL. Then you could have 5 people talking on the phone and surf the net at the same time. You could also dial half your network connection to one place and the other half somewhere else... However, as ISDN is now (speed & price) I think that they should just give up on it.



I don't have any real experience with the large scale networks, so you may well be right. I really just wondering if the issues that I see with cisco are part of a larger problem or not. My observation is made from a very limited prospective, but I can give a few examples of where I think that they are behind the times.

-As previously discussed, they seem to be big on ISDN. Despite ISDN having been out for about 20 years it has not caught on. If cisco is going to push ISDN for computer networking they need to make it compete with modern technology, both for cost and bandwidth. Otherwise, they should stop wasting our time and their money and let it die.

-One of the pervious big reasons to buy cisco was that they were multiprotocol. Now most everyone is happy with IP; who cares if your router will handle appletalk or not?

-For ethernet routers/firewalls/multilayer switches you can put a pile of ethernet cards in a linux box. I don't know how this really compares with using cisco products, but I do know of people that do it because it is cheaper. Actually, I often hear of students doing it in their dorm room in order to get around network regulations. I may do it with my O200 for the fun of it. What happens when those guys get real jobs? They also say that it does a better job & is easier to setup, but I don't have the experience to comment on that. However, I do like the vendor independence of such a solution.

-Judging from what I covered in the CCNA certification, they don't seem interested in making their stuff easier to administrate. While this makes it easier for me to get a job, it is a poor long term business practice.

Anyway, I could be wrong on all this - I need some experience to get a better idea of how it all works. For those of you that do have more experience I would ask this: In the past 5 years how much new & exciting stuff has cisco come out with, and how much have they dropped the prices on the old stuff. Are they coming up with new stuff that you really want in your network, or do they depend on selling retreads of old products?

Again, they aren't pushing it for *data*, but many people still use ISDN for voice, where a T1 is impractical or too expensive.



The multiprotocol argument is a fair one. All vendors implement compatible IP stacks. On this issue it's mostly a matter of price (e.g. the SOHO router).



First, in my and most other professional's opinions I'll wager, host-based routers are a joke in the enterprise space and nothing more than toys in SOHOs. They are the domain of hobbiests that enjoy doing new and interesting things with their OS of choice (which is not at all a bad thing). However, not only is there no support on such "devices" (a *huge* deal for a business), they are a kludgy mish-mash of applications and configurations.

IOS is standard across all routers that use it. The syntax is the same, upgrade paths are the same or very similar, and it's performance on various devices is nearly a known quantity. The variety of ways to configure/upgrade a host-based router of *any* kind just doesn't lend itself well to environments where the admin that built it likely will not be around when there is a problem and device performance/reliability is paramount.



There is an http(s) server on nearly every Cisco device with a GUI, if you prefer that to the command line. Not all configuration options will ever be available through the GUI, though (that would lead to something on the order of the Windows Registry in size, complexity and probably instability). You can perform most common tasks and get a snapshot of the device via this method. Despite the availability of the GUI, I have never seen an admin I respected use it, and probably never will - the console is standard and predictable across devices (once you're used to it).



Most of the development in the networking world is in wireless and VoIP right now. In that regard, Cisco has created entirely new product lines and invested in making them reliable enough for enterprise use (they run on their own equipment - believe it or not, including CallManager... ugh). Their products are never perfect (whose are?), but they are rarely behind the curve with reliable(!) hardware and the support to back it up. In the industry, I don't think anybody has anything like TAC (they'll write the config for you, if you have a service contract - most Cisco customers do whether they need it or not).

Clearly, I am behind Cisco in much the same way as some sysadmins are with Microsoft. While some would disagree with this standpoint, Cisco products have always been good to me, and when they haven't (hardware failure), Cisco has always replaced the part as fast as I asked for it. Their devices perform well, are reliable in ways many other companies can only dream of, and are a de-facto standard both within their own company and across the industry. There really is very little reason *not* to buy Cisco, if you can afford it (this is a large point of contention, even among Cisco supporters), and *no* reason for a netadmin worth their salt to not be familiar with IOS.

Humm... It sounds like I will have to learn a lot more about the cisco stuff before being able to say much more here. It is clear that I only know a small amount of what is going on out there.... Well, if I manage to get a good real job I should be able to learn a fair bit.

It also sounds like the CCNA self study books leave out quite a bit, and are sometimes misleading. My guess is that they are intended only for beginners, and that they gloss over some of the complex issues because of this. I tend to feel that this is not a good thing, but it seems common. My better instructors in college would point it out when there were exceptions to a rule, even if we didn't have to worry about them for that class. That way, if we actually used the stuff later the exception would not come back to byte us (unless we decide to program in perl).

Some examples:

Note: the book that I am looking at is the 2005 edu. of the CCNA self study guide, ISBN 1-58720-083-X

-The prior mention of the book saying that you can't edit numbered ACLs (page 465)

-ISDN could well be viable for voice; don't know what is going on in the telco area. However, chapter 10 acts like I can expect to be using an ISDN BRI as a serious backup network interface on a router.

-There was never any serious discussion of other ways of configuring a router. I agree that using a command line can be much better way of doing things, and the CCNA should mostly focus on it. However, they should at least cover the basics of other ways to do it. I can just see someone who just got a CCNA saying in an interview that they have no clue about the http server or windows configuration programs. This could really look bad for both them and cisco.

Thanks for the various comments! They give me some idea of what to keep an eye out for, and give me a better idea of problems to look for.

One other question. I am thinking that the CCNA self study books will not make good reference books, and that when working with cisco stuff I will want a real reference book instead of a beginners instructional text. Should I just ebay these books and get some other cisco book when the time comes, or will they be useful in the future?

Honestly, I've always found the Cisco texts to be far too theoretical, especially for reference purposes. I do, however, keep a copy of the latest edition of the O'Reilly Cisco IOS in a Nutshell on my bookshelf. I found it handy when I didn't have access to the 'net (say, at a customer's site) and I needed to figure out the proper usage of a command. I've become decreasingly dependant upon it and cisco.com for command reference as I've gained experience (which I think is a "good" thing).

The only other really good text of CCNA level that I'm familiar enough with to recommend is the Sybex CCNA Study Guide by Todd Lammle.

Lammle has a great writing style and a fantastic ability to cover enough of the topic areas to be applicable to the CCNA, while still allowing for the student's growth by referring to specific items (esp. with EIGRP and OSPF) that will be expanded upon in future studies/practice.

He, et al., also published an all-in-one CCNP book that I found really quite good.

I agree entirely with you with respect to introductory courses and "glossing" over topics, and I think you're spot on with regard to Cisco's CCNA texts. However, they advertise the CCNA as an "apprentice" level certification, wherein the student should learn a broad range of topics, but very little depth within any given area. This is mostly to introduce the student to technologies and ideas that they probably have had very little exposure to (e.g. link-state routing protocols, frame relay and ATM).

The CCNP goes much further in-depth on several of these topics, providing enough knowledge for the student to feel comfortable with advanced configuration and be able to choose which CCIE topic is of most interest to them.

http://secunia.com/hardcore_disassemble ... _engineer/