SGI: Discussion

I've just added my first SGI machine to my computer collection. It is an Indigo2 IMPACT R10K @ 195Mhz. I was looking to add a second unit and am trying to decide between the Fuel and the Octane2.

I was wondering if some of you with more experience could give me some pro/con advice on which machine would make a good addition. From what I am reading the Fuel is a newer machine but was only intended to have Single CPU while the Octane2 can have Dual CPU which would mean a more powerful box. Is one better/worse for graphics, memory, etc?

If you were out to build the most powerful unit of each in terms of graphics and CPU performance, which would win?

Appreciate your insight...

Fuel wins in terms of disk transfer rates and CPU speed (900MHz[1] max compared to Octane2's 600MHz), it's a dead heat in terms of graphics since they both max out at V12, but other than that the Octane2 wins in every category, especially in terms of it's workstation-class construction, they're designed to keep working no matter what, the Fuel was SGI's attempt to see if it could compete with the high-end PC market, in terms of price. They couldn't...

[1]Finding a Fuel with a faster than 600MHz CPU is no simple task, basically because the people who own them aren't selling them; they're still too useful...

This question comes back now and then, people comparing a 10 years old computer with a 15 years old computer.

Simply put, neither can pretend to come anywhere close to the performances of today's computers, especially graphic-wise.
Yet, many people still use the MIPS platform because they already have a considerable amount of money invested in software and there's no need to make it faster. Or, just like me, because MIPSpro isn't available anywhere else (except using quicktransit).

With this being said, focus on the few little things which are often ignored, the Octane2's noise level is too much for a quiet office (IMHO), and the power consumption is about 1.5x the fuels' (it might matter if you intend to leave it powered on 24/7). The Octane2 looks better, but, again, so does the O2; if you're buying used, shipping the fuel would save you a few bucks over the Octane.

Also, the Fuel will accommodate Sata drives (although, I urge you not to put anything critical on those, even with raid, but that's the topic of another discussion).

If you decide later to upgrade to a Tezro, the Fuel's memory sticks are identical, so you could save a few bucks there.

Except MIPSpro is specifically excluded from the list of supported QuickTransit apps [sorry, can't find the link right now].

Short answer -- if you're already adding another, you might as well surrender now and get both, you're clearly doomed.

What are your general criteria for choosing to collect a particular model? What I mean is, did you pick up the I2 because of it's significance in the evolution of 3D workstations? Because it looks cool? Because of the software it ran/runs?

If you really intend to max out either an Octane or Fuel, it's gonna add up fast...

The Octane is definitely an iconic SGI workstation, from an industrial design or packaging perspective. While it has the dual CPU option and up to 8GB of RAM, you're far more likely to find those CPUs running from 225-400MHz than 600 and something like 2GB of RAM. Meanwhile the Fuel's CPU usually runs at 500-600, though yes up to 900 in rare cases; it likely has the same 2GB of RAM instead of the 4GB max, but it is DDR; and the SCSI bus is outright twice as fast. If you want PCI cards, the slots are right there - no need to find shoehorns or a shoebox. Fuel has USB built-in, but you'll have to hunt a little for an audio card. Octanes are loud, but fan replacement's supposed to make a big difference.

Without fan replacement an Octane isn't going to be doing regular duty in my office, I don't think. Fuel's a much better choice there. But the Octane is just a whole lot cooler in general, so...

This is all great information guys! Thanks!

I chose the Indigo2 as my first SGI machine because it was the most powerful of the "pizza box" style that SGI produced. In comparing it to the entire line of SGI machines, it is in the mid-to-low-end scale and I was hoping to add a higher end workstation as my second machine which would be used on a regular basis. From everything that I am reading it seems the Fuel will be better suited for what I am looking for. If I can find a good example of each, I will buy both and just try them for myself to make a final decision on which to keep permanently.

Danger, Will Robinson.

You'll wind up keeping both.



You must eat very deep-dish pizzas.

That's what I was going to say, if he ends up buying either the Fuel or the Octane or both, the one he'll end up purging will be the I2...

DO NOT tell him about the innate coolness of single system image IRIX running spread over several different physical boxes. Next thing you know he'll be looking for CrayLink/NUMAlink cables and asking questions about IR/g-bricks...

I have a couple of Dell R710 servers clustered together as my main server infrastructure.

Distributed computing has always fascinated me and I've been wanting to experiment with this on the Linux/Unix side.

Are you saying you can run MULTIPLE IRIX boxes chained together in a sort of "cluster" ????

BTW, already msg'd one of our members about his Octane2, and found another source for a Fuel.. We'll see how it goes.

No, some types of SGI MIPS/IRIX systems can be connected to form a single system image (SSI). A single instance of the OS runs on the combined system.

This applies to the bigger systems: Origin 200, 300, 350, 2000, 3000 and their equivalent graphics enabled sisters (with the exception of the deskside Onyx2). Not the workstations.

For example, my 8CPU Origin 350 is made up from two quad CPU Origin 350's.

Clusters are usually collections of standalone machines, each with their own OS instance running, and use various services or libraries to coordinate execution of independent executables over some or all of the machines in the cluster. They often use some kind of library to mask the fact that cluster-wide memory is broken out in chunks across the machines and cannot be addressed uniformly by any single process.

When you start plugging the later SGI servers together, you're converting standalone machines into one shared memory multiprocessor. In other words all those boxes click together like Legos (literally the code name of the SGI Origin 2000) to make one big computer, running one instance of IRIX.* If you have 5 Origin 300s each with 4 CPUs and 4GB of RAM and 2 73GB HDD, cable them together through a NUMAlink router and you wind up with a single computer that has 20 CPUs, 20GB RAM, and 10 HDD.

When you run IRIX on that collection it just looks like one large machine to your software - a Single System Image (SSI). The app you were just running on your Indigo2 can suddenly schedule threads / child processes on 20 CPUs, mmap() ~20GB of RAM, etc without rewriting to use other libraries, configuring MPI, hooking up GigE or Infiniband, etc. And at the multi-gigabyte per second speeds of the NUMAlink connections.

I realize 20 cores and 20GB of RAM would fit comfortably in a tower case under your desk for the past year or three, but you can't as far as I know put a second box there, plug a cable between the two, and have a shared bus machine with 40 cores, etc. But you could do this stuff with the Origin 2k (and $$$) back in 1996...


* You can "partition" such a system, putting a subset of the system's resources into an apparently-independent machine. Similar to Solaris "zones" I believe, and similar features from other systems.

I couldn't agree more,
I started with an Octane2 (with broken XBOW that cause occassional freezing) whilst waiting for my Fuel,
then got another Octane2, O2, couple Indy's etc.
Now I have 10-some machines.

"And I thought it will not be easy to source SGI anymore "

My first experience with SGis was when the PTB at work decided to switch CAD systems from Anvil to Pro/ENGINEER. This would have been around 1992, when the only computers in the world capable of running Pro were SGIs. As the years went by we switched to less expensive Sun workstations for CAD, which was when I bought my personally owned Octane2, because I couldn't handle the 4Dwm withdrawl...

Why stop at 20? O3k will go up to 1024! One of Nekochan's Aussie members had a 128 processor unit. With these you don't need to worry about message passing or any of that, just make sure your code is sufficiently threaded.

Do you mean a 1024 CPU NUMA system or a cluster? According to the SGI Origin 3900 Server Site Planning Guide the maximum is 512 CPUs, but I'm aware, that the guides often omit the unofficial versions (like the 512 CPU Origin 2000).

Because I'm not familiar enough with the latest Intel E-series Xeons and Bulldozer Opterons to know whether or not you can get more than 16-24 cores into a tower case that'll fit under a typical desk. It made sense in context.

I decided to pick up a Fuel first and give it a go. Based on all the feedback received, it sounds like this will be a better fit for me. It is purchased and on its way to Canada! Should be here by mid next week.

Specs are:

600MHz R14000 Processor w/4MB Secondary Cache 1GB Memory
V10 Graphics
DVDROM drive
Keyboard & Mouse
mAudio sound card

Seems to be a pretty standard config.. I was hoping to find a faster proc but anything above 600 was a big premium and scarce so I will start with the 600 for now..

Thanks to everyone for the input!

no drive?

No.. I will provide my own drive. Want to find the quietest, fastest SCSI drive I can put in there and load the IRIX media myself.

Any input on a quiet, fast drive for the Fuel?