Nekonomicon - Help needed with a Power Challenge L

SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 3, 2012, 7:05 a.m...

Henry Dorsett Case wrote:

But AFAIR the FW300F1 is only used on IP25 boards. Is there any chance that you're willing to sell an IP25? If swapping the CPUs would be possible I would be very happy with a naked board w/o the R10k. I think that you wrote "the other boards" on purpose because you don't want to part with an IP25, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Shipping the whole thing to Germany will be another question, I think.

Cheers
HDC

I wouldn't be surprised if the "303"/"305" boards had them too - but those are also likely rare (IR graphics). I certainly don't have any with my CHALLENGE.

_________________
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Henry Dorsett Case
Who joined March 23, 2009, 8:59 a.m.
and authored 29 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 3, 2012, 8:14 a.m...

By all appearances, a 030-0841-003 rev. A could be a source, too.
It's used in an Onyx so 48V DC in is possible, I presume. Can anybody approve that, please?
(Note to myself: Try to find the specs.)

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jan-jaap
Who joined June 17, 2004, 10:35 a.m.
and authored 3661 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 3, 2012, 8:23 a.m...

Nope, that's a (full) router for an Origin2K/Onyx2

Anyway, try to remove the dead power brick from the PCB first before you start dreaming of sourcing a replacement part. Like I said, I tried and failed.

I don't expect anything from an SMD reworking station. You'll have to look for a small torch :twisted:

*Maybe* it works with a butane powered soldering iron? I had a roommate in college who had one of those things...

_________________
Now this is a deep dark secret, so everybody keep it quiet

It turns out that when reset, the WD33C93 defaults to a SCSI ID of 0, and it was simpler to leave it that way... -- Dave Olson, in comp.sys.sgi
Currently in commercial service:

(2x)

In the museum : almost every MIPS/IRIX system.
Wanted : GM1 board for Professional Series GT graphics (030-0076-003, 030-0076-004)

Henry Dorsett Case
Who joined March 23, 2009, 8:59 a.m.
and authored 29 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 3, 2012, 10:12 a.m...

Thank you for the clarification. And also for your encouraging words about de-soldering the power brick

. I'll take the IP25 to the guy with the soldering station, maybe he is able to predict if a de-soldering process with his station is feasible. If not I'll try it with a butane powered soldering iron - and be sure, I'll put these actions on video for amusement's sake.

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SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 3, 2012, 2:02 p.m...

I have a IP25 thowing POK errors - I can give it a try with my 100W+ stained glass iron.

_________________
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

There are those who say I'm a bit of a curmudgeon. To them I reply: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

:Indigo:

(single-CM)

robespierre
Who joined Sept. 12, 2011, 1:28 p.m.
and authored 318 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 3, 2012, 3:13 p.m...

what makes it hard are the ground planes that suck up all the heat. i bet it could be done by clipping off the device and using a 140 C preheater.

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astouffer
Who joined Jan. 29, 2011, 5:52 p.m.
and authored 82 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 4, 2012, 1:58 p.m...

jan-jaap wrote:

FYI: I've tried to de-solder a component from an IO4 once and even with a professional desoldering station is was absolutely not happening. Those PCBs are simply too thick, you will destroy the traces on the top layer before the inside gets warm enough.

Ever try a heat gun?

jan-jaap
Who joined June 17, 2004, 10:35 a.m.
and authored 3661 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2012, 11:42 a.m...

astouffer wrote:

Ever try a heat gun?

Not on an IO4.

I wasn't desperate, I just had an IO4 with an empty Dallas. I thought it would be easier to remove the Dallas from the board before reworking it with a CR2032. That was a mistake

I 'dremeled' the Dallas while it was installed on the IO4 and installed a CR2032 socket somewhere close.

_________________
Now this is a deep dark secret, so everybody keep it quiet

It turns out that when reset, the WD33C93 defaults to a SCSI ID of 0, and it was simpler to leave it that way... -- Dave Olson, in comp.sys.sgi
Currently in commercial service:

(2x)

In the museum : almost every MIPS/IRIX system.
Wanted : GM1 board for Professional Series GT graphics (030-0076-003, 030-0076-004)

SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2012, 8:40 p.m...

astouffer wrote:

jan-jaap wrote:

FYI: I've tried to de-solder a component from an IO4 once and even with a professional desoldering station is was absolutely not happening. Those PCBs are simply too thick, you will destroy the traces on the top layer before the inside gets warm enough.

Ever try a heat gun?

I'm not sure that I would - if you're not careful with those you can pop the board layers apart. I had a KSU controller board that started spitting molten solder as the layers delaminated - not fun.

_________________
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

There are those who say I'm a bit of a curmudgeon. To them I reply: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

:Indigo:

(single-CM)

guardian452
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 9:12 p.m.
and authored 2602 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 6, 2012, 6:37 a.m...

astouffer wrote:

jan-jaap wrote:

FYI: I've tried to de-solder a component from an IO4 once and even with a professional desoldering station is was absolutely not happening. Those PCBs are simply too thick, you will destroy the traces on the top layer before the inside gets warm enough.

Ever try a heat gun?

A real hot air soldering tool is a good investment and you will be hard pressed to go back to a heat gun after using one. However, in this case you might need to double-fist with one of each.

You want a lot of localized heat very quickly. Maybe even try a plumber's propane torch. I wonder what sort of damage you could do with the proper wavy-reflow soldering oven. Or even one of those ovens the deli uses to toast sandwiches (yum!)

(edit: added thoughts)
Ideally, you want as much heat in as small a point as possible. Spreading the heat, having too much heat applied before the solder point melts, will likely result in SAQ's dire predicition of de-laminating the board. I used to have a 150w soldering gun which would be an ideal candiate.

SGI advises solder rework on Onyx boards in their own diagnostic tools (irsaudit):

Code:

DIAG Replace DG board; repair by reworking flawed ASIC.

There might be some hints in the service manual. But admittedly, the IR boards are not quite as... manly... as the Ebus boards proper (no VRMs, for starters, and more SMD bits).

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SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 6, 2012, 2:30 p.m...

guardian452 wrote:

You want a lot of localized heat very quickly. Maybe even try a plumber's propane torch.

No - that would really cause damage. If I were using a torch it would be one of those small ones used in brass instrument repair. Hot flame, small enough to be directed at the solder joint without burning the board.

_________________
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

There are those who say I'm a bit of a curmudgeon. To them I reply: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

:Indigo:

(single-CM)

mopar5150
Who joined April 24, 2012, 5:02 p.m.
and authored 92 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 8, 2012, 2:44 p.m...

Henry Dorsett Case wrote:

Quote:

FYI: I've tried to de-solder a component from an IO4 once and even with a professional desoldering station is was absolutely not happening. Those PCBs are simply too thick, you will destroy the traces on the top layer before the inside gets warm enough.

That's what I'm afraid of, too. What I was thinking about was to remove the CPU from the IP25 (although I didn't find the time to check if this task has it own risks) try to de-solder the FW300F1 (I have acces to a professional SMD desoldering station and the owner of the station offered his assistance) and to solder the new one in, reinsert the CPU and give it a try. The board is defective anyway, the only problem could be that I fry the CPU or anything else because of internal havoc caused by the soldering.

Quote:

I will look at the other boards and see if this converter is used on any of them. If not I could sell you one out of my onyx as I only use 10% of it anyway.

mopar150, did you mean that you are thinking of selling me a surplus non-IP25 board with a FW300F1 so that I can try to de-solder it? That would be pretty cool, thanks a lot. But AFAIR the FW300F1 is only used on IP25 boards. Is there any chance that you're willing to sell an IP25? If swapping the CPUs would be possible I would be very happy with a naked board w/o the R10k. I think that you wrote "the other boards" on purpose because you don't want to part with an IP25, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Shipping the whole thing to Germany will be another question, I think.

Cheers
HDC

Sorry for the slow response. I will be selling the Onyx10k to make room for my new machine and if I can't get a buyer for the whole machine I will part it out and sell you a known good IP25. I have seen several power boards on ebay for $150 that may have the same converter. Also, I have a vacuum desolder station for thru-hole PCBs and could help you remove the one you have. The best way to remove something that big is to cut up the part on top and only have to deal with the pins. that way you can heat both sides.

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jan-jaap
Who joined June 17, 2004, 10:35 a.m.
and authored 3661 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 9, 2012, 12:13 a.m...

mopar5150 wrote:

I have seen several power boards on ebay for $150 that may have the same converter.

eBay is full of people hoping to get rich. There's also someone out there offering the guts (including the power boards) of an Onyx for $2K+ / board. Guess what -- it's been there for more than a year and it's not selling. I bought a spare 303 board for 30 bucks about a month ago.

I have an Onyx IR (freebie) with a quad R10K board (100 bucks?). My Challenge has three IP25's (the sought after quad R10K, 2MB L2 variety) and I'm sure I paid less than $100 each for those as well. That's the entire CPU board, in working condition and not a DIY cross-your-fingers project.

Oh, and IP25 boards are *heavy*. In other words: transatlantic shipping is going to cost you.

_________________
Now this is a deep dark secret, so everybody keep it quiet

It turns out that when reset, the WD33C93 defaults to a SCSI ID of 0, and it was simpler to leave it that way... -- Dave Olson, in comp.sys.sgi
Currently in commercial service:

(2x)

In the museum : almost every MIPS/IRIX system.
Wanted : GM1 board for Professional Series GT graphics (030-0076-003, 030-0076-004)

mopar5150
Who joined April 24, 2012, 5:02 p.m.
and authored 92 notes

Wrote the following at Aug. 12, 2012, 8:24 a.m...

jan-jaap wrote:

mopar5150 wrote:

I have seen several power boards on ebay for $150 that may have the same converter.

eBay is full of people hoping to get rich. There's also someone out there offering the guts (including the power boards) of an Onyx for $2K+ / board. Guess what -- it's been there for more than a year and it's not selling. I bought a spare 303 board for 30 bucks about a month ago.

I have an Onyx IR (freebie) with a quad R10K board (100 bucks?). My Challenge has three IP25's (the sought after quad R10K, 2MB L2 variety) and I'm sure I paid less than $100 each for those as well. That's the entire CPU board, in working condition and not a DIY cross-your-fingers project.

Oh, and IP25 boards are *heavy*. In other words: transatlantic shipping is going to cost you.

I know the seller you are talking about, recycledgoods. They have allways been very overpriced. I contacted them to make an offer on the whole onyx they had and they wouldn't come down in price. There are still several power boards on ebay for less than $200. As jan jaap has said if you wait you can get a deal. I bought 3 loaded MC3s and an IO4 for $275 shipped. I haven't seen an IP25 for a long time.

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(X2)

(x2)

(X2)

Henry Dorsett Case
Who joined March 23, 2009, 8:59 a.m.
and authored 29 notes

Wrote the following at July 21, 2013, 1:30 a.m...

Gents,

hope that it is acceptable to revive this old thread. Apologies that I didn't manage to update my own thread, had a rough time back then. I followed the advice given in your contributions and cancelled the attempt of de-soldering the defective power brick. After more than a year I finally managed to buy a new IP25 4x195 MHz 2 MB Cache board from a nekochan user for a decent price. Swapped boards, turned keys with sweaty palms: System came up without errors. After some DIY to build a nullmodem cable (thank you SGI for another permutation of a serial pinout) I'm now connected to the system. Mission accomplished. Many thanks to all of you for your kind support!

Cheers!

HDC

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Help needed with a Power Challenge L - Page 2