Getting Started, Documentation, Tips & Tricks

zagnut wrote: Im curious, has anyone ever ported an old mac os (system 7 or 8 ) to a MIPS SGI? Im not educated in fruit OS. Many years back I had a PowerBook 1400c....a beautiful laptop for its generation. I regret disposing of it But I digress....

Impossible. No source code. Plus, why would you want to run Mac OS Classic. Even compared to the primitiveness of UNIX, the bespoke MacOS Classic is decidedly dinosaur era in terms of functionality and usability.

vishnu wrote:

magnet wrote: Im curious, has anyone ever ported an old mac os (system 7 or 8 ) to a MIPS SGI? Im not educated in fruit OS. Many years back I had a PowerBook 1400c....a beautiful laptop for its generation. I regret disposing of it But I digress....

Uh, wouldn't you need the source code to mac os 7 or 8 to do that? Did Apple release that source code? I must have missed that press release...

I believe the source for one version of System 7 actually did make the rounds back in the day (I think you can still find it online somewheres,) but it certainly wasn't actually released to the general public.

Besides, it seems like it would be much simpler to just port Basilisk to IRIX.

commodorejohn wrote: Besides, it seems like it would be much simpler to just port Basilisk to IRIX.

I think it's in nekoware. If not, in someone's "other contributed binaries" folder ... pretty sure I've seen it.

This is as good a time as any to mention that there's a LOT of stuff in nekoware. It's not all emacs or vim text editors or wackadoodle perl scripts to order ice cream, triggered by ambient temperature readings. It's mostly useful applications.

zagnut wrote: For my photography needs, as a redundant storage device, it should serve well.

There's not as many programs for grafix manipulation as Windows, but there are some. Photoshop is several versions back but works okay. There's Eclipse, which I never got the hang of but seems real capable (and it's free.) Both Image Magick and Graphics Magick are in nekoware. I like graphics magick and use it a fair amount. Illustrator is old but works. There's some more esoteric stuff like Studio Paint, Matador and Amazon Paint floating around, plus Shake. We collaborate here between Windows and Irix doing advertisements, quotations, brochures, greeting cards, phony documents, and other stuff. For some things Windows is faster, for others Irix. Everything gets checked on Windows before it leaves tho, since 90% of the world uses Windows. Windows and Irix display photos differently.

I have not been successful at getting any of the Linux programs to work well. Scribus, Inkscape, Abiword, all a big disappointment. Gimp is maybe okay but I haven't used it in years. They all seem like they got to a certain stage then quit ... right when the program was starting to show promise. I got tired of wishin' and hopin' ...

Umm, about installing Irix ... it's a bitch. About the third time you do it, it's not so bad. But by then you are pickier and keeping it from installing crap you don't want is a struggle so it's still a bitch. Not sure what to recommend about that but 6.5.22 is where I'd say you'd be happiest. It's got the nicest stuff and feels the most responsive. You could selectively upgrade certain systems later if you need to.

Installing Linux is not going to be a joy either. And all the applications are not going to come off a repository ready to go. You'll have to build everything. Oh goody.

Buying a disk with Irix installed is probably your best bet and even cheapest. You can just pop it in, set up networking and start using it. Anything else is going to be a struggle.

Welcome outside the asylum

vishnu wrote:

zagnut wrote: Well, photo editing would fall into the pro category...not sure about RAID serving for that purpose though.

There's an Irix version of Photoshop 3, ancient but still usable. And any of the Irix versions of Shake are still world class at all aspects of photo editing, not to mention compositing.

I fired up photoshop on my octane the other day and I was pleasantly surprised how clean and usable it was (snappy in fact, nicer than the free copy of ps cc I got when I bought my EOS 6D), though the dpsnx.agent tended to hang occasionally. There's also a lot of convenience missing, you end up having to mouse around a bunch i menus and things (ah, that old-time mac feel). Also I couldn't find a way to get more than one undo level which was mildly amusing.

zagnut wrote: Out of curiosity....should this have the bandwidth capable to stream 1080 HD video at around 25mbps? I understand the type of array will effect that as well, but that aside, will the Octanes components handle that ok?

hamei already outlined why the octane is a terrible choice for a fileserver, but as for data speeds this is not the issue. The random disk I have in my Octane just clocked in some 85MB/s in sequential reads off the disk, and there are gigabit ethernet cards available if you have a PCI shoehorn or -box.

The internal architecture of the octane is fascinating in that regard. There's no traditional mainbus in the octane, but instead it inherited the crossbar architecture from its big brother the Origins. It will happily push up to (IIRC) four bidirectional data streams between any part of the machine to any other part connected to the Xbow at any time. I have some data that the individual stream's guaranteed bandwidth is 1.6GB/s[0][1].

You couldn't realistically do transcoding on it though, which the hip kids tell me they do on their NASes.

Disclaimer: I have a terrible memory, broadly I think I remember correctly, but if I didn't, please correct me.

[0] Yes, byte. Shared between the read and write though, so 800MB/s either way.
[1] The page at http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/octnarch.html claims that the bandwidth is based on the cpu clock rate, so 200MHz * 8 = 1600 MB/s, but I am dubious, wouldn't it rather be the speed of the xbow chip? Perhaps it takes its timing from the cpu.

Thanks all.

As to OS7, Id never install it, even if it had been ported. It was my first real experience with a Mac OS and it made me want to pull my hair out. But yet somehow, Linux doesn't make me want to kick puppies....go figure. I was just curious if anyone had/if it was even possible.

I've always wanted to play around with Shake. I actually needed Shake a couple years back for some HD video editing, but, well, Shake isn't exactly for Win systems.

I use Lightroom for my photo stuff. I don't use PS, as I come from the Corel camp. I tried to transition once, but was already too familiar with Corel to bother trying to fully learn PS.

The reason I'm so adamant about using it as a redundant photography server, is because I really don't want to part it out in order to stuff an Intel board in it. Then again, I dont even know if it powers up yet, so it may already be destined for that purpose. Then again, maybe it's better to part it out so that it can keep another running for what it was truly intended. My inner nerd at least needs to play with Irix first though.
I really need to see if it at least powers up today.

I love the modular design of the Octane. I wish all computers were made this way. It would make upgrading/repairing them so much easier. This is one proprietary design I admire. Unlike COUGH *dell* COUGH.

As to OS7, Id never install it, even if it had been ported. It was my first real experience with a Mac OS and it made me want to pull my hair out.

I'll be the token classic Mac OS defender: under the hood, it's crap. But when it works, the user experience is excellent, which is why we're still saying FTFF in OS X 13 years after Steve-o eulogized OS 9 at WWDC.

The ability to run Classic apps is why my daily driver Power Macs run 10.4.

ClassicHasClass wrote:

As to OS7, Id never install it, even if it had been ported. It was my first real experience with a Mac OS and it made me want to pull my hair out.

I'll be the token classic Mac OS defender: under the hood, it's crap. But when it works, the user experience is excellent, which is why we're still saying FTFF in OS X 13 years after Steve-o eulogized OS 9 at WWDC.

The ability to run Classic apps is why my daily driver Power Macs run 10.4.

I wont bash OS. OSx is great for video and photoediting. Part of the reason Im tempted to build a Hackintosh. But OS7, and even 8 when I upgraded, was just not a good experience for me on the Powerbook. That active tft display was beautiful for its time though.

Id be tempted to buy a current Mac for, photo and video, if it weren't for every damn "hipster" having one.

duck wrote: The random disk I have in my Octane just clocked in some 85MB/s in sequential reads off the disk

The internal SCSI bus of an Octane is UltraWide SCSI, 40MB/s. Faster controllers like the QL12160 work in the Octane, but you need a PCI cage/shoehorn. The PCI-XIO bridge used there is your next bottleneck because its limited to something like 150 ... 170MB/s throughput IIRC. In the case of the shoebox this bandwidth is shared by the three 64bit, 33MHz PCI slots. So to get sustained gigabit file serving performance you would need two XIO-PCI bridges (a shoehorn plus a second shoebox /shoehorn for the gigabit ethernet card). You also need an external enclosure for the disk(s).

It's not impossible, but an Origin350 is a much more convenient platform for this. Plus you can install a SATA controller in it, so you can get a half decent amount of storage without the need for one or more shelves full of crappy old SCSI/FC disks.

I've always wanted a rack server. A 350 would be cool. Does this look like a good deal? http://www.ebay.com/itm/121679911986

Someone about 20 mins from me is selling a nice looking Origin 2000 rack. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271907648495 Too bad I don't have the $$$ and a pick up truck. Looks a little pricey for a 2000 though.

I came across an Altix 4700 for under $1500 USD too! I posted it in the bazaar, go look if you're near California.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16729764&p=7380846#p7380846

zagnut wrote: Does this look like a good deal? http://www.ebay.com/itm/121679911986

That would be an outstanding deal if they were working, still a good deal even if they're not. From the pictures they look mint, not a spec of dust, possibly they've never even been turned on...

vishnu wrote:

zagnut wrote: Does this look like a good deal? http://www.ebay.com/itm/121679911986

That would be an outstanding deal if they were working, still a good deal even if they're not. From the pictures they look mint, not a spec of dust, possibly they've never even been turned on...

I was thinking the same, look in great shape. I might see if I can talk my gf into letting me buy yet 2 more computers .

Go check out that Altix I found for sale. Its got 36 processor modules for a total of 72 Itaniums and 8gb ram. Posted a link above in edited post.

Altix-shmaltix! If it can't run Irix it's crap...

Never turned on? Are we looking at the same Origin350 or are you being sarcastic?

It's missing a drive bay door, most of the 19" rackmount rail kit, and the NUMA cable to connect the two units.

On the plus side, one unit is dual 800MHz, the other quad 800MHz. You'd need that NUMA cable, the rest is optional.

jan-jaap wrote:

duck wrote: The random disk I have in my Octane just clocked in some 85MB/s in sequential reads off the disk

The internal SCSI bus of an Octane is UltraWide SCSI, 40MB/s.

Err yes, I know that, my ears are burning. I ran bonnie++ once and didn't even stop to think.

Something must be wrong it, it now claimed 181MB/s sequential reads and 56MB/s sequential writes on a 1GB file.

vishnu wrote: Altix-shmaltix! If it can't run Irix it's crap...

It run Linux....good enough for my HTPC and redundancy needs. Probably a little overkill though...but thats how I roll.

jan-jaap wrote: Never turned on? Are we looking at the same Origin350 or are you being sarcastic?

Code: Select all

Condition:    For parts or not working
Seller Notes: THE ITEMS HAVE COSMETIC WEAR THEY WERE POWER ON TESTED ONLY.

It's missing a drive bay door, most of the 19" rackmount rail kit, and the NUMA cable to connect the two units.

On the plus side, one unit is dual 800MHz, the other quad 800MHz. You'd need that NUMA cable, the rest is optional.

The door is cosmetic, I could care less personally. Says they were pulled from a working system. And they are remarkably clean looking, which I believe is what brought on the "looks like never turned on" comment. I don't think Vishnu believes they have never been on, they just appear that way. Very clean for being pulled from a working system. That system must not have been used very often. For the age, they should have some visible dust. Which does make me curious.

jan-jaap wrote: Never turned on? Are we looking at the same Origin350 or are you being sarcastic?

Code: Select all

Condition:    For parts or not working
Seller Notes: THE ITEMS HAVE COSMETIC WEAR THEY WERE POWER ON TESTED ONLY.

It's missing a drive bay door, most of the 19" rackmount rail kit, and the NUMA cable to connect the two units.

Beasts like these can aquire plenty of cosmetic wear just from being moved around, shoved under benches, propped up against walls, etc. If they never had rack hardware they may never have been mounted and thus may never have been used. Admittedly the pictures are a little blurry but the insides look dust-free, which is always the first best indicator of lack of use...

zagnut wrote: I've always wanted a rack server. A 350 would be cool. Does this look like a good deal? http://www.ebay.com/itm/121679911986

Yes. I'd go for that myself if I were in the market for more IP35 nodes at the moment. Note that "item 1" does not have an IO9, thus is not very useful without being attached to another unit via a numalink cable (around $40-60, possibly plus shipping). These will run Linux in single-CPU mode if you'd rather run that than IRIX, although the drives may well already have IRIX installed.

Someone about 20 mins from me is selling a nice looking Origin 2000 rack. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271907648495 Too bad I don't have the $$$ and a pick up truck. Looks a little pricey for a 2000 though.

That looks like it's an Onyx 2000, doesn't it? The top chassis doesn't have any XIO slots (and some of the boards are rather suspiciously tagged "RM"), and the bottom chassis has an IO6-G rather than an IO-6. If you're careful, and you work with a friend, you should be able to take it apart to the point where you can lift the peices separately.

If I had space and power for it, and a suitable vehicle, I'd jump on that. Two days there, parts it until I can lift the bits into the car, two days back...

nyef wrote:

zagnut wrote: I've always wanted a rack server. A 350 would be cool. Does this look like a good deal? http://www.ebay.com/itm/121679911986

Yes. I'd go for that myself if I were in the market for more IP35 nodes at the moment. Note that "item 1" does not have an IO9, thus is not very useful without being attached to another unit via a numalink cable (around $40-60, possibly plus shipping). These will run Linux in single-CPU mode if you'd rather run that than IRIX, although the drives may well already have IRIX installed.

Someone about 20 mins from me is selling a nice looking Origin 2000 rack. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271907648495 Too bad I don't have the $$$ and a pick up truck. Looks a little pricey for a 2000 though.

That looks like it's an Onyx 2000, doesn't it? The top chassis doesn't have any XIO slots (and some of the boards are rather suspiciously tagged "RM"), and the bottom chassis has an IO6-G rather than an IO-6. If you're careful, and you work with a friend, you should be able to take it apart to the point where you can lift the peices separately.

If I had space and power for it, and a suitable vehicle, I'd jump on that. Two days there, parts it until I can lift the bits into the car, two days back...

I didnt see the RM tags....hmmmm. Onyx or Origin, sadly I cant afford it atm no matter which it is. We have a baby on the way and I haven't started my new job yet. It saddens my inner geek when I see things like this locally and cant get them. I showed my gf, and after hearing its over 6ft tall and seeing the price, she laughed hysterically. I knew the answer answer immediately upon hearing her maniacal laugh. lmao.

I'd much rather drive to Cali for the Altix I posted a link to if I were going to spend $1.3-1.5k anyways.

Oh well....maybe once I start my new job, we move, and the baby is born....then I can get the rack system I've always wanted. I have no problem paying low for a nicely maintained unit, for home use, thats considered obsolete by enterprise standards.


BTW....all of you are evil......you've awoken my inner nerd to a new type of computer that can be had inexpensively. My gf will forever hate you all for the hell I will be putting her through in the coming future.

ClassicHasClass wrote: I'll be the token classic Mac OS defender: under the hood, it's crap. But when it works, the user experience is excellent, which is why we're still saying FTFF in OS X 13 years after Steve-o eulogized OS 9 at WWDC.

I'll join you in that. I got my start on classic Mac OS, and even though it had its shortcomings I've never used another OS whose user experience was anywhere near as nice.

commodorejohn wrote:

ClassicHasClass wrote: I'll be the token classic Mac OS defender: under the hood, it's crap. But when it works, the user experience is excellent, which is why we're still saying FTFF in OS X 13 years after Steve-o eulogized OS 9 at WWDC.

I'll join you in that. I got my start on classic Mac OS, and even though it had its shortcomings I've never used another OS whose user experience was anywhere near as nice.

Ditto. As far as I'm concerned, System 6.0.7 with MultiFinder was a better Mac OS than any OSX.