The collected works of Antnee

Hey guys

This is a question that I'm sure many people have asked, and we've had a small conversation about it in other threads, but I'm genuinly interested in knowing how people got into SGI hardware. Was it because you work with it? Maybe you're just like me and like to have a collection of various different types of H/W? I dunno. I'd be interested to hear what people come up with...
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Well my story goes back to the days of the Indigo. I don't remember how I first found out about SGI but it was roughly 1992 I think. I was reading some general computer mag, might even have been a games mag, talking about Nintendos plans for the successor to the SNES. I think the N64 was actually announced in 1993 so I may be wrong about that.

Basically, I remember hearing about the capabilities of the Indigo. I remember a cousin of mine telling me about the Amiga Video Toaster used for Babylon5, and he mentioned SGI (sorry, Silicon Graphics) being machines that acted as external upgrades to some machines. At the time he thought that they were available for a number of systems such as the Amiga, PC and ST. I now know that they were available for the DEC Alpha machines, although I gather some cards (like the MCA IRIS Vision card that recently appeared on eBay) did become available for PCs, although these were after SGI decided to make their own hardware.

I'm not even nearly qualified to go into what came out and when, I just know the Indigo was out at the time and I spotted a few images in magazines and read about the awesome power. Bare in mind that in 1992, Intel had just released the 486DX2 CPU which ran at about 20-33MHz at launch, so the Indigo would have anihilated any PC at pretty much anything back then. I have no idea how much it cost, and I didn't even have my first PC until 1997(ish) although I did work with them before that. I was actually still using an Atari ST, and begrudged making the step onto Windows. I only did it because I was using Bentley's then-state-of-the-art MicroStation95 CAD package at college and needed a copy at home too. Mac was far too expensive so I plumped for a 116MHz AMD K5-PR166. At this time, I had only heard of the Indigo2 in magazines such as Computer Arts here in the UK. Unfortunately though, even though PCs were becoming more powerful and moving into the media markets at this time, Apple pretty much had all the attention, so I heard very little of SGI. This was before we had easy access to the internet at college. We had a single ISDN line that was used by the entire facility, until we got onto the super-fast accademic network here in the UK.

Anyway, by this time, little was ever heard about SGI here. You really had to be working in the arena to get any interaction. I bought a Nintendo64 a week after it launched here in the UK, it felt like I had my first SGI. I remember that was around my first year at college, which would've been 1995-96. Couldn't tell you exactly when though.

Years then passed and I just worked on PCs. I got swallowed up by the instabilities of Windows. I started at home on Win95, then went to Win98. I tried Linux around the launch of WinME and hated it (SuSE I think it was). My AMD K5 couldn't take WinME, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise, so I tried Mandrake. Hated that too as I couldn't get any decent apps to work. By this time I was heavy into use of Photoshop and 3D Studio Max. I eventually upgraded to an AMD Athlon 1.33GHz PC, a massive step from the PR166 AMD K5 that I had used for 4 years! I got swallowed up in the PC/Windows world and didn't really give SGI another thought for some time.

I went through a couple of CAD/Engineering jobs before I sustained an injury and had to take it easy. I was doing CAD as well as operating some serious machinery, doing a lot of lifting. It was killing me since I had trapped nerves in my right shoulder and chest. I decided to opt for the easy life and took a job working for the UKs *favourite* high-street electronics retailer (the group, not the store) in their PC support call-centre. I was shocked to find out the job wasn't what was advertised and I was basically spending all day telling people how to reinstall Windows and how to plug the damn things in properly.

I soon tired of the job and got in touch with the cousin I mentioned earlier. He was/is working for a huge credit-agency around the corner from where I worked, and if his sister is to be believed, he was on £100,000+ a year. I wanted to know how to get into his field, mainly as a way to get out of the call centre.

I was told that studying for qualifications like Microsoft's MCSA and MCSE were pointless, they're far too specific and tie you to a relatively low-paid job working with Windows servers, and nobody really wants that. He advised I pick up a Sun workstation, such as a SparcStation, and learn Solaris. "The money is in *NIX" he told me. Turns out that his company is almost ALL Sun H/W, as seems to be the trend in financial institutions. I decided to pick up an Ultra30 as the SparcStations seemed too low-spec for me, so I paid my money and set to being seriously confused.

While I was looking for Sun hardware on eBay, I noticed a few SGI machines, specifically Octane and Origin2000. The Octane was interesting but was still priced very highly. The Origin2000 I saw was a working 32-CPU machine with something like 8GB RAM (forget the exact figures now). I desperately wanted one of these, I figured I'd much rather learn IRIX than Solaris, although I had no idea what the state of SGIs hardware was these days. I figured since UNIX is standardised, that learning IRIX would make a transition to Solaris easier one day. Suffice to say that I saw fit to not buy the huge Origin server and I bought the Sun workstation I mentioned above.

Eventually I figured out what I was doing and then found that there was nothing else to do, it was running and there were no faults, so what else do I do? I got fed up and turned the machine off for some time. Since then I left the call centre to repair laptops. Still not exactly what I was looking for in a job!

When Solaris10 launched earlier this year I decided to turn the U30 back on. I then found that the new interface (Java Desktop System) seemed a lot slower than Solaris9's Gnome interface, despite JDS being based on Gnome, and there was no way I was going to try CDE, I hate that with a passion! Anyway, the speed of the U30 was making it difficult to work in the GUI so I decided to look for an upgrade. I had my eye on a Blade100 or Blade150, which were selling for about £150 in February. While I was scouring eBay I found Octane had dropped in price and £200 would buy me a decent 300MHz R12000 along with monitor, keyboard, mouse and SpaceBall. Right, I'm having it. I've wanted SGI for 13 years, I'm having one now.

Oh dear! It started and it couldn't stop. Since February, I bought that Octane, two Octane2, an Origin200 and an OriginVault, not to mention all the monitors! I have 5 20"+ monitors now! I need to sell off a couple of machines and I think the Sun is going. I'll buy a newer, higher spec one some time, but I have no use for it anymore. My PC is now a 2.4GHz P4 with 1GB RAM, yet I still enjoy using my 360MHz and 400MHz Octane2s more.

I'm sure you can imagine I was gutted when I realised SGI weren't developing newer versions of IRIX other than updates. Then I realised that MIPS was pretty much finished, and SGI were doing the Itanium thing. I felt like I'd wasted my money, but then I realised that IRIX is fun to use and it makes me smile everytime I power up, so I don't care. I wish I'd found the money and bought into SGI years ago now!

Long story I know, but I like to be thorough! ;)
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I'm not going to pretend that I hate PCs, because it's not true. I use Windows XP as my main platform, mainly because the apps I need are on it and I haven't come across anything as good on IRIX yet, my PC is also 10x as good as my Octanes for skipping around the web etc.

Apps wise, for example; DreamWeaver MX is a fantastic tool for web-dev, and I love Photoshop7, neither of which are available on IRIX. I certainly enjoy using my Octanes more though, I just wish the apps I want to use are on there. Still, I guess there's the odd few. I don't do much 3D work these days so I have little use for that kinda thing. I think I own SGI mainly because I want to, not because I need to, and that makes me happy, to have what I want, not just what I need.
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When you say it wasn't what you expected, were you disappointed or impressed?

I was shocked to find most people where I work have never heard of Silicon Graphics or SGI, which I find most odd because we all work with computer hardware. When they've asked what SGI have ever done for us, when I mention OpenGL, the Nintendo 64, and all the great special FX, they seem surprised. Same goes for Sun and Java though! The only ones who seem to know anything about SGI appear to be those using Linux. Go figure!
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Hey, can we get some real UK/US Pool game? I prefer it to any kind of billiards. More of a UK pool fan mind you, old rules!

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squeen wrote: I get around 50 fps on a dual R14 600Mhz with everything turned on.

Stop showing off!

whiter wrote: isn't this game on the o2 demos cd?
Or otherwise on an Indyzone, but I would swear the o2 demos.
I know I have played it on my o2 a lot before.

It's on the Octane demos I think, or a simillar type game is, although it certainly don't look that good! I got it on my Octane2 here
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nekonoko wrote: Heh, and that was two years ago - he's got a much faster machine these days ;)

God, it was wasn't it, I didn't notice that! Well I've got a BIG project in the pipeline after the one I've already mentioned to you, hopefully it will pull in over £10,000, so maybe I'll be the one showing off afterwards! ;)
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dexter1 wrote:
Sorry old chap, how's this?

What-ho? Now I know that my colourblindness may be an issue here, but that looks terribly like a game of the old snooker my good fellow. The good old English pool is played with seven of your English red balls, seven yellow and a black.

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The first person to pot a colour will have to pot the rest of that colour. Potting (or touching) another ball, black or the opponents, before your own, is a foul. Once you've potted all your balls, you pot the black to win

Tally-ho

http://www.epa.org.uk/wrules.php

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recondas wrote:
<hmmm - the old 'two peoples separated by a common language' thing rears it's head> Next time yer over this way I know a coupla places we can get in on a friendly <cough> game o' buck-a-ball. Just keep a tight grip on the thin end of the cue stick - first time you mention potting yer balls we'll probably havta fight our way out. 8)

I'm sorry, I often forget that these games originated in Europe, and that we're speaking English! ;) What COLOUR balls would you have? He he (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

As for US pool, I'm aware of the differences. How's this for some slight differences:

Snooker

Table: 12ft x 6ft
Balls: 21 + cue ball (multiple colours, different values)

American Pool

Table: 8ft x 4ft
Balls: 15 + cue ball (spots & stripes)

English Pool

Table: 6ft x 3ft
Balls: 15 + cue ball (reds & yellows)


As I understand it, it's only really the way the games are played that makes a difference, and of course there are the different types, 10 ball, 8 ball etc. Obviously, your spots & stripes are different too. Correct my mistakes, please!

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Well, personally I'm looking forward to Dorado. Looks like it's gonna be the cheapest SGI yet, and they did a pretty good job with O2 as the cheapo, who knows what they can do with this! I may just have to buy one.

I notice a lot of people will scream for Tezro, but will slag off the IA64 machines. Hey, they're powerful as hell, and rumour has it that the caches on the new Itaniums will be HUUGE! OK, so Dorado is supposedly gonna have 3MB cache per chip, but that's cool for now. I'm just as pissed that we've lost MIPS and IRIX on the roadmap, but that doesn't mean I can't still use em. I still got 4 perfectly working IRIX/MIPS machines here, and just cos the new machine will be IA64/LINUX, doesn't mean they'll stop running.

I for one will look forward to having a play with Dorado, and if I like it, I'm having one ASAP!

Go ahead, flame away, I can take it! :twisted:

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I've got to ask though... is anyone actually considering getting one of these things?

Should find out more about it when SGI show it on Tuesday as I understand it

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Does anyone know if this system is likely to be able to run any of the existing IA64 software? Having not paid much attention to Altix or Prism, I have no idea how hard it is to port software from existing platforms. For example (and heaven forbid but you understand where I'm going with this...) would you be able to run Windows 2003 64-Bit with suitable drivers? Sorry, but it's the only example I can come up with off the top of my head, what with not having a clue about what software is available on Itanium!

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Well it's definitely gonna be running Linux since SGI haven't shown any signs of porting IRIX to IA64. The Altix and Prism both run Linux, although SGI are porting individual components; XFS etc.

Should find out tomorrow I guess!

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:evil:

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Well, I like it. I just spotted it in a Prism PDF, I found this image:

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Didn't have any other info then. Dammit, and I actually thought I was the first! ;)

It would appear that my damn SmoothWall was caching http://www.sgi.com/products/workstations/ so I didn't see it when I went on, although I noticed this bit:

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Deskside? The PDF says Deskside too, which is confusing, it certainly doesn't look like a deskside to me

EEP! SATA HDDs and IDE DVD drive, a slimline LAPTOP drive at that. [shudders] What's that all about?

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I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of blanks at the moment, but that might be because the official unveiling isn't until later today. Maybe we'll get more info then?

I figured $8,500 to be £4,462 for anyone in the UK thinking about one... If only! Wonder how long it'll be before it hits the remanufactured route? ;)

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zx6000 uses SCSI and can take the 6MB cache Itanium2 too whereas Prism workstation only takes the 3MB cache models, as well as having SATA and PATA, not SCSI.

zx6000 does use the older FireGL though. Oh, and I quite like Gnome!

Lastly, the link you gave to the zx6000 is in the "renew" area. Renew = Remanufactured = Second Hand

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Dubhthach wrote:
Still the next version of Itanium is dual core and is pin compatible with those, so within 9months or so ye be able to upgrade your 2CPU Prism workstation 4CPU (2 x dual core)

Yeah, and apparently will have up to 26MB cache, as opposed to the 6MB max in the current generation. Will Prism be able to accept it though?

I just realised: Advanced Linux Environment = ALE. I can feel a Homer moment coming on... Mmmm, beeeer!

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Erm, doesn't Prism come with software already to allow MIPS binaries to run on it? Or are you referring to running the same apps on a non-SGI IA64 machine?

hamei wrote:
Maximizing their return on investment, aka cheap crap in an $8500 (base price) computer in a market where HP and Sun sell proven boxes with good support for 2/3 as much. Or less. This oughta be a real winner. Case looks nice though. Maybe SGI should go into selling aftermarket peecee cases.

I agree, it looks great, but it doesn't seem that long ago that we were discussing how SATA wasn't really any better than PATA at the moment weren't we? And you already know how I feel about slimline DVD drives! ;)

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hamei wrote:
...oh yeah, they really needed that cheap-ass flaky slimline DVD drive, what with the box being so tiny and all.

Sarcasm doesn't suit you at all! There's a full size drive in the Tezro isn't there? Wonder how long it will be before people are trying to squeeze them into Prism too!

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hamei wrote:
Hmm. I wonder if you could run HP-UX on it ?

Does that mean you're gonna buy one? ;) I think the fact is that those of us who really want SGI systems, will either have to put up with increasingly dated systems or get on the IA64 bandwagon. Don't think we have much choice do we?

Do you think SGI might consider releasing IRIX source so someone can have a go at porting it one day! :twisted:

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I like too. Shame it doesn't support 48-bit RGBA. Still think that's something of a backwards step, but hey, it's not like your eyes can see that many colours anyway! ;)

I just noticed this: http://www.sgi.com/products/visualizati ... vices.html

It mentions the IRIX® Implementation service:

"Get on the fast track to productivity. Includes IRIX software installation and configuration, disk/tape management, serial device connectivity, and a range of system administration services."

Now, why would that be on the Prism pages I wonder?

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I still think it'll only be a matter of time until some one has Windows running on it, dammit!

And this must be why they're calling it a desk side:

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Seriously though, I ask you!

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Yeah, MS dropped support for IA64 XP some time ago. TBH, I thought they'd dropped 2003 too. I can't imagine many people paying for Itanium2 and then installing something as unreliable as Windows on it!

My real question though, is how easy is it to port existing software from other IA64 systems to Prism? Just because it has the same CPU, doesn't mean it can run the same OS. Look back at the old Motorola 68000. I never saw an Atari ST running Mac OS! ;)

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Does anyone else get the feeling that Hamei is disillusioned with SGI?
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Ian Mapleson has told me today that Cordnet are saying the price in the UK will be about £4200.

Oh, and PCI-X and PCI-Express are completely different beasts Shrek. Check this: http://www.pcisig.com/specifications

Oh, and it's not bad. PCI-X is backwards compatible and runs to 533MHz

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Here's what he said in his email:

Ian Mapleson wrote:
Btw, Cordnet confirmed that the UK list price of the new Prism would be about 4200

I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him now! :lol:

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chicago-joe wrote:
that better be one hell of a nice computer case for $4000. :roll:

No no, £4000 for us here in the UK apparently, $8500 fo you guys!

Still waiting on SGI updating the site to acknowledge the 1GHz R16000 for Tezro that they confirmed is available the other day

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Ooo, a challenge! I like that!
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assyrix wrote:
D'Oh, silly me. Which leads me to the next question - where are the PCI-E slots? And why no sound hardware?

Indeed, silly you. Didn't you read this:

Antnee wrote:
Oh, and PCI-X and PCI-Express are completely different beasts Shrek. Check this: http://www.pcisig.com/specifications

Oh, and it's not bad. PCI-X is backwards compatible and runs to 533MHz


Last time I checked, != means "doesn't equal" too. ie, PCI-X != PCI-E means "PCI-X DOESN'T EQUAL PCI-Express"

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I wonder if their recent losses have anything to do with not charging NASA any where near as much as Columbia is worth?

Anyone remember Thinking Machines? Awesome hardware, but they survived off government grants and jobs arranged by the government for them. You should read this story if you want to see what happened to them:

http://www.inc.com/magazine/19950915/2622.html

Read it, process it, and then see if any of it seems like Deja Vu? Bare in mind that this article was originally written in September 1995...

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I was watching a video on SGIs site the other day, shows a dude walking down one of the rows of Columbia, down the back of two rows of machines. Can you imagine how hot it must be behind there then? When you've got a rack either side of you, blasting hot air straight onto you as you walk by? I hope they got good air-con!

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I used to have every machine I owned running stuff like Seti, but not only was the power bill too much, but one of my PCs kept blowing PSUs too! I'd love to find inteligent life (beyond this planet, you know what I mean!) but not as much as I like to save money!
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As much as I love them, I haven't powered any of my SGI or Sun on for years, so I'm going to let it all go for free to anyone who collects. Based near Nottingham, England. I have the following:
  • 2x Octane 2 (1x 360, 1x 400, both V6 Pro)
  • External SCSI DVD-ROM (Charcoal)
  • Origin 200
  • Origin Vault (full of drives)
  • SGI GDM-5411 21" monitor
  • Sun Ultra 30
  • Sun Blade 1000
  • Sun GDM-20E20 20" monitor
  • Number of spare FCAL drives for Blade

I'll get photos and exact specs if anyone is interested.

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Origin 200 + Vault hinv
Code:
Location: /hw/module/1/slot/MotherBoard/node
PIMM_2XT5_2M Board: barcode GFH301     part 013-2284-002 rev  A
Location: /hw/module/1/slot/MotherBoard/node/xtalk/8
IP29 Board: barcode FXX711     part 030-1244-001 rev  H
Location: /hw/module/1/slot/MotherBoard/node/xtalk/8/pci/2
2 180 MHZ IP27 Processors
CPU: MIPS R10000 Processor Chip Revision: 2.7
FPU: MIPS R10010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 2.7
CPU 0 at Module 1/Slot 1/Slice A: 180 Mhz MIPS R10000 Processor Chip (enabled)
Processor revision: 2.7. Scache: Size 2 MB Speed 180 Mhz  Tap 0x9
CPU 1 at Module 1/Slot 1/Slice B: 180 Mhz MIPS R10000 Processor Chip (enabled)
Processor revision: 2.7. Scache: Size 2 MB Speed 180 Mhz  Tap 0x9
Main memory size: 512 Mbytes
Instruction cache size: 32 Kbytes
Data cache size: 32 Kbytes
Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 2 Mbytes
Memory at Module 1/Slot 1: 512 MB (enabled)
Bank 0 contains 512 MB (Standard) DIMMS (enabled)
Integral SCSI controller 0: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), single ended
Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 1)
Disk drive: unit 2 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 2)
Disk drive: unit 3 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 3)
Disk drive: unit 4 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 4)
Disk drive: unit 5 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 5)
Disk drive: unit 6 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 6)
Integral SCSI controller 1: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), single ended
CDROM: unit 4 on SCSI controller 1
Integral SCSI controller 3: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), differential
Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 3 (unit 1)
Disk drive: unit 2 on SCSI controller 3 (unit 2)
Disk drive: unit 3 on SCSI controller 3 (unit 3)
Disk drive: unit 4 on SCSI controller 3 (unit 4)
Disk drive: unit 5 on SCSI controller 3 (unit 5)
Disk drive: unit 6 on SCSI controller 3 (unit 6)
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty1
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty2
IOC3 parallel port: plp1
Integral Fast Ethernet: ef0, version 1, module 1, slot MotherBoard, pci 2
Origin 200 base I/O, module 1 slot 1
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x10a9, device 0x0003) PCI slot 2
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1077, device 0x1020) PCI slot 0
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1077, device 0x1020) PCI slot 1
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1077, device 0x1020) PCI slot 6
IOC3/IOC4 external interrupts: 1
HUB in Module 1/Slot 1: Revision 3 Speed 90.00 Mhz (enabled)
IP27prom in Module 1/Slot n1: Revision 6.156

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Octane 2 360MHz hinv
Code:
Location: /hw/node
PM10360MHZ Board: barcode LME623     part 030-1590-001 rev  B
Location: /hw/node/xtalk/15
IP30 Board: barcode LKE040     part 030-1467-001 rev  D
Location: /hw/node/xtalk/15/pci/2
FP1 Board: barcode MBY848     part 030-0891-003 rev  J
PWR.SPPLY.ER Board: barcode AAE1110097 part 060-0035-002 rev  A
Location: /hw/node/xtalk/11
ODY32 Board: barcode LKS139     part 030-1403-003 rev  B
1 360 MHZ IP30 Processor
Heart ASIC: Revision F
CPU: MIPS R12000 Processor Chip Revision: 3.5
FPU: MIPS R12010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 0.0
Main memory size: 1024 Mbytes
Xbow ASIC: Revision 1.4
Instruction cache size: 32 Kbytes
Data cache size: 32 Kbytes
Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 2 Mbytes
Integral SCSI controller 0: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), single ended
Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 1)
Integral SCSI controller 1: Version QL1040B (rev. 2), single ended
CDROM: unit 6 on SCSI controller 1
IOC3 serial port: tty1
IOC3 serial port: tty2
IOC3 parallel port: plp1
Graphics board: V6
Integral Fast Ethernet: ef0, version 1, pci 2
Iris Audio Processor: version RAD revision 12.0, number 1
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 4265, device 3) pci slot 2
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 4215, device 4128) pci slot 0
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 4215, device 4128) pci slot 1
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 4265, device 5) pci slot 3

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No, sorry. I don't have the packaging for one, never mind the lot. The O200 came on a pallet!

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Sorry. If I had the packaging I'd be happy to send it anywhere that people were willing to pay for, but I don't :(

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Technically it's all still remaining, because I've not prepared it all to go, though someone has their name on all of it except the Sun monitor I believe

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These things are all reserved. If, by the time they're all prepared and ready to go, the person who has their name on them no longer wants them, then I'll be offering them back out again. Tomorrow evening is far too soon for that I'm afraid, mostly because I'm working every hour God sends at the moment to integrate a vendor system with our own, so I don't have the time to sort them. Sorry.

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