SGI: Hardware

In the process of getting my new Octane set up I've gone through two 13w3-VGA adapters. I bought them both on eBay... one I bought because I thought it would work, then I realized the listing said nothing about SGI so I bought another one that said SUN/SGI in the listing, saying it would work with SGI systems.

Well, none of them work. In fact, they're the same damn adapter in the exact same packaging. I tried plugging both in between my Octane and my Acer X193w+ monitor that worked with my O2 (flawlessly might I add), but I can't get any signal. An older, crappier Compaq LCD just says "Input out of range" and doesn't do anything. My AL1913W that works with my O2 and is SOG-capable doesn't work, either.

I've tried stripping out all of the pins on one of them to get it down to the basic R G and B plugs, but no joy. I've also tried looking around on eBay for a seller who *actually* knows what he's talking about and won't just post the same adapter and claim it works. Still no joy.

I know there are a few retailers online like Deepspacecables, but DSC I've heard has kicked the bucket and isn't even responding to any orders, payments or emails. Is there anyone else who actually can give me the right adapter? Is there something I can do to one of my current ones to make it work?

From other posts on the forum it seems that the stand 13W3 adapter that is typical for a SUN will not work on the Octane... take a look at these posts about the subject and it might help:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16720339

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16720341

cris_adder wrote: From other posts on the forum it seems that the stand 13W3 adapter that is typical for a SUN will not work on the Octane...

YMMV, apparently - I have one Indigo 2 High Impact connected to a KVM -> Iiyama 19" monitor via a Sun adapter and that works just fine. It is, however, a VGA(m) -> 13W3(f) adapter, i.e. the full connection is:
I2 -> 13W3 cable (also Sun, I think) -> adapter -> VGA connector of KVM.

My Octane is connected in the same way, though using a simpler self-made adapter (RGB only) and an SGI 13W3 cable. This also works fine.
The only machine I could not get to work that way is my Indy.

"Yes, this again" is right. There have been many posts about this before, I guess I should add this to the wiki or something. Maybe it's already there?

cris_adder wrote: From other posts on the forum it seems that the stand 13W3 adapter that is typical for a SUN will not work on the Octane...

As noted already, not necessarily. You need to determine if your monitor is capable of handling Sync-On-Green signals (SOG). If it is, a Sun adapter will work, possibly only with modification. Unfortunately, many more misguided souls bought Suns for some reason, so they are more common. Any adapter advertised "SUN/SGI" on eBay or anywhere else, is a Sun adapter . The SGI gets in there because it may work with a SOG monitor on an SGI.

SOG signaling only requires three connections - Red, Green, Blue - the 3 large coaxial pins on the 13W3 connector. These are common to both the Sun and SGI pinouts, hence the reason they can be used. However, the center 10 pins have alternate sync and monitor ID pins that are not routed correctly for an SGI. With some monitor combinations, they may cause problems. Cutting out these pins and severing the connection will make these adapters work with that SOG monitor. If for some reason you don't believe this works, you have not used an old DEC or similar workstation that only had 3 BNC connectors to the monitor, or hooked up a DVD player to a TV with component video.

If you do not have a SOG capable monitor, you may be SOL. You will need an SGI specific 13W3 adapter that routes the horizontal and vertical sync signals to the appropriate H/V pins on the VGA HD15 connector. This is the common signaling scheme for the PC world. The only places I know for sure that sell appropriate 13W3 adapters were SGI, deepspacecables.com, and reputable.com. As noted, deepspace has had issues but I heard they were back online. I heard Greg Douglas at Reputable may be offline. Ian Mapleson may also sell them, don't know but it seems like the kind of thing he would do. I saw a place, Ultra something, maybe Ultraspec, use the search, that had a promising adapter (no mention of Sun) but never tried it. si87.com may also have something.

Making your own from parts is possible but expensive unless you have a 13W3 cable you want to scrap.

Using a non-SOG monitor with an SGI specific adapter may still have problems, although this is uncommon - the sync signals still present on the green channel can cause issues. It may be possible to disable these sync signals with a setmon command but I haven't verified this.

dclough: If you have the Sun adapter, cut pins, and a SOG monitor, it will work, unless in the process of cutting pins or something the adapter was damaged in such a way that all three connections are not made. It may be possible that you are set to a resolution the monitor doesn't support, possible the monitor doesn't support the res only in SOG mode. The monitor may also not support SOG even though a datasheet says it does. Note that checking that the monitor works on an O2 is not a check of SOG capability , since the O2 also has H/V sync. In a quick search I didn't see anything about that Acer one way or the other.

[EDIT: addressed dclough above, not emgaron]
[emgaron: No reason that a SOG setup that works on an Octane shouldn't work on an Indy. Try playing with the setmon command, I think its "setmon -sg" to be certain that the SOG signal is being output.]

Hi.

Does anyone have a "pinout" for the 13w3 out on an SGI Octane machine?

Does this really need its own thread? You can add it to the "Yes, this again" thread you posted right after without hijacking it.

But the answer to your question is yes, SGI does.

http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/manuals/3000/007-3435-004/pdf/007-3435-004.pdf

They provide excellent documentation for their products. Try pages 309-310. That's the document, not pdf, page number.

dc_v01 wrote: Does this really need its own thread? You can add it to the "Yes, this again" thread you posted right after without hijacking it.

Merged.

There's also some information on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB13W3

Adaptor for 13w3 to hd15 for a non-sog monitor is complicated.

If anyone have a working wiring circuit please let me know. I tried the few pins options mentioned in other threads on the forum but no luck so far in make one that work between a Octane and 1600sw.

shadowless wrote: Adaptor for 13w3 to hd15 for a non-sog monitor is complicated.

But not too complicated
I've modified Sun 13W3 Cables 3 times now for separate H/V Sync now. All you need is a sharp and stable
xacto knife, a wire cutter and a soldering iron. Not to mention the readiness for some sensibly used violence
You have to cut away all the molded plastic so you can reach the pins. If I remember correctly you only need
to deal with the upper row. Then you have to cut the two H and V sync wires and re-route them to the correct
pins. Most times you need some wirewarp wire to extend the H/V-wires. If you are done you wrap the inner
plastic mold core with a thin layer of insulating tape.
The hardest part is to a DSUB-shell which will take the mold core. Industrial or MIL Spec shells are
often of the right size, but not exactly cheap...

If anyone have a working wiring circuit please let me know. I tried the few pins options mentioned in other threads on the forum but no luck so far in make one that work between a Octane and 1600sw.

The "Hardware Developer Handbook" has the pinouts, but they should also be in the techpubs.
But I can post a wiring diagram if you wish... but it will be not before the beginning of the next week...

dc_v01 wrote: Using a non-SOG monitor with an SGI specific adapter may still have problems, although this is uncommon - the sync signals still present on the green channel can cause issues. It may be possible to disable these sync signals with a setmon command but I haven't verified this.

Do you have an example of SOG causing a problem? Maybe a really cheap monitor, or a monitor capable of SOG not properly detecting that it had sync signals on both Green and the H/V sync lines and trying to merge two slightly out sync sources.

http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/sync-on-green/sync-on-green_en.php wrote: I[n] case you are wondering, the sync pulse does not interferate with the green signal because the pulses always occur at the end of a line or at the bottom of the screen.

dc_v01 wrote: "Yes, this again" is right. There have been many posts about this before, I guess I should add this to the wiki or something. Maybe it's already there?

Is now..
I cobbled something together...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13w3_to_VGA

Please edit the hell out of it.

japes wrote: Do you have an example of SOG causing a problem? Maybe a really cheap monitor, or a monitor capable of SOG not properly detecting that it had sync signals on both Green and the H/V sync lines and trying to merge two slightly out sync sources.

http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/sync-on-green/sync-on-green_en.php wrote: I[n] case you are wondering, the sync pulse does not interferate with the green signal because the pulses always occur at the end of a line or at the bottom of the screen.

I don't personally have an example and have never seen this happen, but it's been reported here. People started calling good non-SOG monitors "SOG tolerant" or something like that, we can search for that term, bad monitors were "not SOG tolerant". Given your quote and some other factors, I personally tend to think that something else is fubar'd and the reported effect really isn't what it seems to be, but lacking any other evidence take the reports at face value.

PymbleSoftware wrote: I cobbled something together...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13w3_to_VGA

Thanks!

PymbleSoftware wrote:

dc_v01 wrote: "Yes, this again" is right. There have been many posts about this before, I guess I should add this to the wiki or something. Maybe it's already there?

Is now..
I cobbled something together...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13w3_to_VGA

Please edit the hell out of it.

Thanks for posting something!

Funny, this actually drove me to sign up and start working on one. I had an idea where I wanted to go with my wiki article. Looks like we were working on it about the same time. I've started here...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13W3

dc_v01 wrote: "Yes, this again" is right. There have been many posts about this before, I guess I should add this to the wiki or something. Maybe it's already there?

Well, thanks to PymbleSoftware, there is now...

dc_v01 wrote: [emgaron: No reason that a SOG setup that works on an Octane shouldn't work on an Indy. Try playing with the setmon command, I think its "setmon -sg" to be certain that the SOG signal is being output.]

That's what I thought. However, due to some shuffling around in my computer area at home, the Indy ended up being my only SGI that's actually connected to an SGI monitor (GDM-17E21) and SGI keyboard/mouse, so that problem is solved for now. I'll keep your hint (thanks!) in mind, though - you knever know when I might feel like rearranging things again...

japes wrote:

PymbleSoftware wrote:

dc_v01 wrote: "Yes, this again" is right. There have been many posts about this before, I guess I should add this to the wiki or something. Maybe it's already there?

Is now..
I cobbled something together...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13w3_to_VGA

Please edit the hell out of it.

Thanks for posting something!

Funny, this actually drove me to sign up and start working on one. I had an idea where I wanted to go with my wiki article. Looks like we were working on it about the same time. I've started here...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13W3

Great minds think a like but fools seldom differ
Suggest merge into my entry or do what you like.
Meh, I don't care.

PymbleSoftware wrote: Please edit the hell out of it.