Nekonomicon - HP C8000, PA-8800 1GHz, 4GB, FireGL X1

gkl
From New Jersey, USA
Who joined Aug. 13, 2009, 9:49 a.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 4, 2011, 12:16 p.m...

I just bought a HP C8000 off of ebay (for dirt cheap, and more are still listed), and thus begins my journey into the mysterious world of PA-RISC. Came with a PA-8800 1GHz, ATI FireGL X1 (256MB), and 73+146GB Ultra320 disks.

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   Processors:
   

   Active:                2
   

   Total:                 2
   

   CPU Version:             PA 8800 CPU Module 3.2
   

   Clock Frequency:         1000 MHz
   

   Machine Identification:  3662404977
   

   Hardware Model:          9000/785/C8000
   

   Kernel Width Support:    64

(March 2011 edit--upgraded to 8x1GB DDR-266 from 8x512MB)

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   Physical Memory:         8197.3 MB
   

   Real Memory:
   

   Active:                293059.3 KB
   

   Total:                 368693.1 KB
   

   Virtual Memory:
   

   Active:                512265.4 KB
   

   Total:                 609681.1 KB
   

   Free Memory Pages:       1456097 at 4 KB/page
   

   Swap Space:
   

   Avail:                 4096 MB
   

   Used:                  419 MB

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   0/2/1/0     mpt         SCSI Ultra320 A6961-60011
   

   0/2/1/1     mpt         SCSI Ultra320 A6961-60011
   

   0/3/1/0     hcd         NEC USB Interface
   

   0/3/1/1     hcd         NEC USB Interface
   

   0/3/1/2     ehci        NEC USB Interface
   

   0/3/2/0     side_ba     CMD IDE controller
   

   0/3/2/0.0   side        IDE
   

   0/3/2/0.1   side        IDE
   

   0/3/3/0     iether      HP  PCI 1000Base-T Built-in
   

   0/4/0/0     gvid_core   HP-UX Console Support for FireGL Graphics card
   

   0/4/0/1     gvid_core   HP-UX Console Support for FireGL Graphics card
   

   17          asio0       Built-in RS-232 Interface
   

   18          asio0       Built-in RS-232 Interface

I had no idea these things are as large as they are, and they're shockingly silent given the fact that mine is pulling over 260W out of my wall just idling at login. Unfortunately the case is locked and I wasn't given the key, so I'll have to find some other way to open it up.

HP C8000, IBM RS/6000 43p 150, and lots of Suns in my collection

D-EJ915
From Virginia Beach, USA
Who joined July 30, 2007, 10:07 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 4, 2011, 8:28 p.m...

Congrats, they are great systems and yep very big and heavy haha.

Dennis Nedry
Who joined Aug. 23, 2007, 6:48 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 4, 2011, 9:50 p.m...

If that's one of those round keys with the (parallel) cuts down the outer side of the barrel...

I'm pretty sure you can defeat those by using a BIC pen with the cap removed from the end (or anything that fits snugly into the lock- so there's a fair amount of friction), by just jamming it in there and turning it in the direction the lock opens, then slowly pulling it out (while continuing to turn it).

I've defeated a few locks like that on other various keyless equipment.

If it's a bog standard pin/tumbler lock... You can defeat those easily enough with a bent jumbo safety pin (or anything else that retains it's shape under pressure) and a screwdriver... Google lock picking, it's easier then you might think. Paperclips might work, but they tend to bend before you can apply enough leverage to pop up the rear pins.

-DN

I've got butterfingers!

SAQ
From Renton, WA
Who joined July 19, 2006, 8:37 a.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 4, 2011, 10:45 p.m...

Dennis Nedry wrote: If that's one of those round keys with the (parallel) cuts down the outer side of the barrel...

I'm pretty sure you can defeat those by using a BIC pen with the cap removed from the end (or anything that fits snugly into the lock- so there's a fair amount of friction), by just jamming it in there and turning it in the direction the lock opens, then slowly pulling it out (while continuing to turn it).

I've defeated a few locks like that on other various keyless equipment.

If it's a bog standard pin/tumbler lock... You can defeat those easily enough with a bent jumbo safety pin (or anything else that retains it's shape under pressure) and a screwdriver... Google lock picking, it's easier then you might think. Paperclips might work, but they tend to bend before you can apply enough leverage to pop up the rear pins.

-DN

Spring steel is the way to go.

"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

"I am O SH-- the Great and Powerful"

:Indigo:

(single-CM)

gkl
From New Jersey, USA
Who joined Aug. 13, 2009, 9:49 a.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 5, 2011, 10:25 a.m...

Dennis Nedry wrote: I've defeated a few locks like that on other various keyless equipment.

I knew this worked for bike locks, but I wasn't sure about these kinds. From the looks of it, the case lock is only a 4-pin (whereas things like soda machines have 8 pins), so maybe it'll be easy to break into. Worst case, I ask HP if they can send me a replacement. I suspect they issued the same key for all of their C8000s.

Of more concern now is that apparently HP patches are now for support contract-holders only, and a lot of their free software offerings (e.g., Firefox 3.5) require system patches above what came on the 11i base install set. I have access to OpenVMS and Tru64 support, but I suspect I may be SOL and stuck with the limited 11i cds and upgrades I have.

Alas! It's still a fun ride. HP-UX feels a lot more like IRIX than, say, SunOS 8/9 did.

HP C8000, IBM RS/6000 43p 150, and lots of Suns in my collection

guardian452
Donor
From United States
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 10:12 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 5, 2011, 11:10 a.m...

They may be the same for all HP workstations. I have a spare for my xw9300, if you think it will work you can have it.

Dennis Nedry
Who joined Aug. 23, 2007, 6:48 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 5, 2011, 2:58 p.m...

I knew this worked for bike locks, but I wasn't sure about these kinds. From the looks of it, the case lock is only a 4-pin (whereas things like soda machines have 8 pins), so maybe it'll be easy to break into. Worst case, I ask HP if they can send me a replacement. I suspect they issued the same key for all of their C8000s.

Likely. I'm not aware of any manufacture that makes per-machine key sets. I think that would cost them too much to make each lock unique for every computer shipped.

Either way, it should still work. I had to deal with one of those (4-pins, super-cheap lock) on a keyless rack about a week ago. It took me about 2 minutes to pull apart a BIC pen and widen the end with a pair of side cutters. Jam the end of the pen into the lock, slowly pivot it around the tumbler axis while turning it in the direction that it opens... 15 seconds later, the rack latch merrily popped up and the rack was open. Wasn't really part of my job at the time, but I had to say something when I saw them heading off to find a drill, a hacksaw, and a crowbar (they'd locked themselves out of the cabinet and had to get to the tape library to install fresh media).

-DN

I've got butterfingers!

gkl
From New Jersey, USA
Who joined Aug. 13, 2009, 9:49 a.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 5, 2011, 4:16 p.m...

Dennis Nedry wrote: Either way, it should still work. I had to deal with one of those (4-pins, super-cheap lock) on a keyless rack about a week ago. It took me about 2 minutes to pull apart a BIC pen and widen the end with a pair of side cutters. Jam the end of the pen into the lock, slowly pivot it around the tumbler axis while turning it in the direction that it opens... 15 seconds later, the rack latch merrily popped up and the rack was open.

Wow, this actually worked exactly as quickly as you had said. Took me longer to find a pen than it did to actually get the lock open. That's one problem down; thanks for the tip!

HP C8000, IBM RS/6000 43p 150, and lots of Suns in my collection

jpanchal
Who joined June 5, 2010, 11:06 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 5, 2011, 9:56 p.m...

I have a J6750, and the new HP-UX patching policy is a pain (it's as bad as the new Oracle policy for Solaris...) - just to let you know, Debian runs a dream on PA-RISC hardware thanks to the folks at ESIEE, if you ever need a backup OS.

Alver
From Wetteren, Belgium
Who joined Dec. 7, 2005, 4:46 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 10, 2011, 2:38 p.m...

gkl wrote: I just bought a HP C8000 off of ebay (for dirt cheap, and more are still listed), and thus begins my journey into the mysterious world of PA-RISC. Came with a PA-8800 1GHz, ATI FireGL X1 (256MB), and 73+146GB Ultra320 disks.

Are you sure it's an X1? C8000s 'officially' don't support those (or they're missing from the docs), it's usually either T2 or X3. Also, the X1 only had 128MB, afaik.

Nice machine! Welcome to the C8000 club. Quick hint: pkgsrc on HPUX 11.11 doesn't run too bad.

while (!asleep()) sheep++;

gkl
From New Jersey, USA
Who joined Aug. 13, 2009, 9:49 a.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 10, 2011, 2:47 p.m...

Alver wrote: Are you sure it's an X1? C8000s 'officially' don't support those (or they're missing from the docs), it's usually either T2 or X3. Also, the X1 only had 128MB, afaik.

It may be an X3 then. I kept going back and forth because some docs refer to the "high end" graphics option as X1 and other docs say X3. If the X1 is limited to 128MB though, I've definitely got the X3.

Alver wrote: Welcome to the C8000 club. Quick hint: pkgsrc on HPUX 11.11 doesn't run too bad.

I'll have to give it a try. So far I've been able to find all the software I need precompiled, although one visualization package I use for work (VMD) crashes out if I try to run it with OpenGL support. Compiling it from source did not look fun, but I believe there is a pkgsrc for it.

HP C8000, IBM RS/6000 43p 150, and lots of Suns in my collection

jpstewart
Donor
From Southwestern Ontario, Canada
Who joined Sept. 21, 2010, 3:31 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 11, 2011, 8:24 a.m...

Alver wrote: Are you sure it's an X1? C8000s 'officially' don't support those (or they're missing from the docs), it's usually either T2 or X3.

The FireGL X1 is definitely mentioned in some of HP's docs for the C8000:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=120&prodSeriesId=408101&prodTypeId=12454&objectID=c00332698

Alver wrote: Also, the X1 only had 128MB, afaik.

The ATI FireGL X1-256p card (with 256MB) for the C8000 was offered as HP part number A9653A.
http://www.hp.com/workstations/irg/risc/HP_workstations_UNIX_options.pdf

I had a 256MB FireGL X1-256 in one of my PCs for the better part of the last decade, so I'm quite sure that ATI made FireGL X1 cards with 256MB. (They may also have been available with 128MB, too, but that's another matter. And what was supported in the C8000 is yet another question!)

gkl wrote: some docs refer to the "high end" graphics option as X1 and other docs say X3

Probably at the time of introduction, the high end was the X1 and then when ATI released the X3 it superseded the X1 as the high end option. The fine print in those docs show copyrights of 2004 and 2007.

Sun SPARCstation 20, Blade 2500, T5240
HP C8000

D-EJ915
From Virginia Beach, USA
Who joined July 30, 2007, 10:07 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 12, 2011, 4:47 p.m...

jpanchal wrote: I have a J6750, and the new HP-UX patching policy is a pain (it's as bad as the new Oracle policy for Solaris...) - just to let you know, Debian runs a dream on PA-RISC hardware thanks to the folks at ESIEE, if you ever need a backup OS.

It does for now (5.0) but for 6.0 hppa is dropped

jpstewart
Donor
From Southwestern Ontario, Canada
Who joined Sept. 21, 2010, 3:31 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 13, 2011, 11:25 a.m...

D-EJ915 wrote:

jpanchal wrote: I have a J6750, and the new HP-UX patching policy is a pain (it's as bad as the new Oracle policy for Solaris...) - just to let you know, Debian runs a dream on PA-RISC hardware thanks to the folks at ESIEE, if you ever need a backup OS.

It does for now (5.0) but for 6.0 hppa is dropped

Just FYI: Debian 6.0 (aka Squeeze) was released a week ago, on Feb. 6, 2011. But Debian 5.0 (aka Lenny) is still available.

Sun SPARCstation 20, Blade 2500, T5240
HP C8000

Alver
From Wetteren, Belgium
Who joined Dec. 7, 2005, 4:46 p.m.

Wrote the following at Feb. 14, 2011, 1:08 a.m...

jpstewart wrote: The FireGL X1 is definitely mentioned in some of HP's docs for the C8000

Ah, funny... the internal HP "quickspecs" application mentions only T2 and X3. Maybe the support for that card was removed at some point

regardless, if it's mentioned there, it should work.

while (!asleep()) sheep++;

Alver
Who joined Dec. 7, 2005, 4:46 p.m.
and authored 700 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 14, 2011, 1:10 a.m...

gkl wrote:

Alver wrote:

Welcome to the C8000 club. Quick hint: pkgsrc on HPUX 11.11 doesn't run too bad.

I'll have to give it a try. So far I've been able to find all the software I need precompiled, although one visualization package I use for work (VMD) crashes out if I try to run it with OpenGL support. Compiling it from source did not look fun, but I believe there is a pkgsrc for it.

Can't find it, but perhaps it's known under a different name (pkgsrc sometimes places packages under a slightly changed name to avoid collisions with other packages). If you want to try pkgsrc on UX: http://vanalboom.org/node/17

_________________
while (!asleep()) sheep++;

Alver
Who joined Dec. 7, 2005, 4:46 p.m.
and authored 700 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 15, 2011, 12:07 a.m...

jpstewart wrote:

D-EJ915 wrote:

jpanchal wrote:

I have a J6750, and the new HP-UX patching policy is a pain (it's as bad as the new Oracle policy for Solaris...) - just to let you know, Debian runs a dream on PA-RISC hardware thanks to the folks at ESIEE, if you ever need a backup OS.

It does for now (5.0) but for 6.0 hppa is dropped

Just FYI: Debian 6.0 (aka Squeeze) was released a week ago, on Feb. 6, 2011. But Debian 5.0 (aka Lenny) is still available.

Just FYI again: one has to be more subtle in saying that "support was dropped" - HPPA is still very alive in debian. The point is just that because of lack of dedicated developers, they have removed HPPA from the "release architecture" list, which basically means that even though HPPA will be still built as before, any bug or problem in that architecture will no longer be considered "release critical".

See also: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-an ... 00008.html

But... like I said before... if you buy a huge 18-wheeler Kenworth truck capable of pulling 80 tons of load... why would you put a 14 year old behind the wheel, and never get out of first gear? Use HPUX dammit!

_________________
while (!asleep()) sheep++;

gkl
Who joined Aug. 13, 2009, 8:49 a.m.
and authored 59 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 15, 2011, 6:45 a.m...

Alver wrote:

But... like I said before... if you buy a huge 18-wheeler Kenworth truck capable of pulling 80 tons of load... why would you put a 14 year old behind the wheel, and never get out of first gear? Use HPUX dammit!

Amen! How does that quote go? "Linux is a great way to turn a $65,000 workstation into a 200mhz Pentium."

As it turns out, I was able to find, via Google, an HP FTP site where they forgot to take down the patch sets. I downloaded all 26GB of HP-UX patches "just in case," and my HP-UX 11i MCOE seems to be running fine.

_________________
:Fuel:

HP C8000, IBM RS/6000 43p 150, and lots of Suns in my collection

Dennis Nedry
Who joined Aug. 23, 2007, 5:48 p.m.
and authored 84 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 15, 2011, 2:05 p.m...

Quote:

Amen! How does that quote go? "Linux is a great way to turn a $65,000 workstation into a 200mhz Pentium."

From the Unix Haters Handbook: "How to Make a 50-MIPS Workstation Run Like a 4.77MHz IBM PC."...

-DN

_________________
I've got butterfingers!

R-ten-K
Who joined Nov. 15, 2004, 10:36 p.m.
and authored 1816 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 16, 2011, 3:35 p.m...

Alver wrote:

But... like I said before... if you buy a huge 18-wheeler Kenworth truck capable of pulling 80 tons of load... why would you put a 14 year old behind the wheel, and never get out of first gear? Use HPUX dammit!

I am trying to compute how that analogy is supposed to work, but I keep throwing an exception...

Compared to modern processors, those PA chips are more like an old pick up truck trying to keep up with the commodity Kenworth truck ;-)

Linux in HP-PA works fine as long as you keep yourself to one PA-8800 or PA-8900 chips in your C8000. Apparently, there are no developers with access to multichip C8000s or PA Superdomes, so the main issue with Linux in this architecture is that the algorithm for SMP coherency is rather "brute force" and since the latest PAs had very large L2s (32MB and 64MB respectively) things like cache flushes can induce some serious overhead.

HP-UX is a pretty plain Sys V OS, however some of the stuff which makes it "interesting" comes in the form of add ons which require pretty penny licenses. So for people who want to have a much "nicer" experience with a Sys V, I'd recommend Solaris. But if you have access to the media, and maybe some of the layered products, HP-UX will support the HW much better than Linux obviously. HP-UX is rock solid albeit a tad old. Basically it really is a "no-frills" Unix, so probably not that "exciting" for the enthusiast. It's a pity because I thought a lot of the cool stuff from Tru64 (esp. the cluster technology) would have made it over to HP-UX. Alas...

The thing that annoyed me the most about HP-UX is that 3rd party products (esp. open source packages) are installed in individual subdirectories in /opt. I can see the original intention, but after you install a GNU tool chain for example, you end up with tens (if not well over a hundred) subdirectories under /opt which you need to add to the PATH. Ugh.

_________________
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sun-god robes on a
pyramid with thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

HP/DEC/Compaq

HP C8000, PA-8800 1GHz, 4GB, FireGL X1 - Page 1