What do you guys think of the Illumos project? I figure it's neat to keep OpenSolaris alive. They should support Clang, SPARC, and other things, but I guess their developer base is too small for all of it.
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Illumos - Page 1
Nuke wrote: What do you guys think of the Illumos project? I figure it's neat to keep OpenSolaris alive. They should support Clang, SPARC, and other things, but I guess their developer base is too small for all of it.
This time last year I was making as much money in a day as I currently do in a week, however they used OpenIndiana which was fine and worked for what they needed. I was asked to try some of the other forks of OpenSolaris and if I recall correctly Illumos was one of them. I stuck one of these forks of OpenSolaris on one of the stock standard x86 PCs they used and walked away to do other tasks, came back 5 minutes later it had panic'd. Interesting I thought, so I power cycled it and waited.100% reproducible, every time without even logging into the machine for the first time. I was asked about it and told them, "its a joke, some kind of elaborate hoax" and demoed the install from scratch, boot, watch it crash within a few minutes. "Not ready for production work" they said and we quickly moved on. Everything had to be bleeding edge brittle, fragile and hanging by a shoe string but even they wouldn't touch it.
But that is just my experience.
R.
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開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー
J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.
Sold:
Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.
@PymbleSoftware
Current Apps -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
Visit http://www.pymblesoftware.com
Search for "Pymble", "InstaElf", "CryWhy" or "Cricket Score Sheet" in the iPad App store or search for "Pymble" or "CryWhy" in the iPhone App store.
Well Illumos is the core project for OpenSolaris derived operating systems, mainly dealing with the kernel. What Joyent, Nexenta and others are making of it is extremely interesting, especially since they now have KVM. OmniOS is the current project for a pure standalone server system, if you want that, and SmartOS is for clouds, with Nexenta for storage. It's a pretty dynamic community and having Dtrace + KVM + Containers + ZFS + a modern userland makes for a pretty compelling set of platforms. And the CDDL license keeps most people happy. So what's not to like ?
Indeed, Noth.
And Pymble, OpenIndiana is an official distro of Illumos.
Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience, though.
And Pymble, OpenIndiana is an official distro of Illumos.
Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience, though.
noth wrote: Well Illumos is the core project for OpenSolaris derived operating systems, mainly dealing with the kernel. What Joyent, Nexenta and others are making of it is extremely interesting, especially since they now have KVM. OmniOS is the current project for a pure standalone server system, if you want that, and SmartOS is for clouds, with Nexenta for storage. It's a pretty dynamic community and having Dtrace + KVM + Containers + ZFS + a modern userland makes for a pretty compelling set of platforms. And the CDDL license keeps most people happy. So what's not to like ?
What's not to like is that it's ridiculous stupid pointless shit. If people want to beat off they should download some naked pictures of girls or boys or whatever they are into, go into the closet and pull on it. The rest of this crap is a waste of time, energy, resources, and storage space.
hamei wrote:noth wrote: Well Illumos is the core project for OpenSolaris derived operating systems, mainly dealing with the kernel. What Joyent, Nexenta and others are making of it is extremely interesting, especially since they now have KVM. OmniOS is the current project for a pure standalone server system, if you want that, and SmartOS is for clouds, with Nexenta for storage. It's a pretty dynamic community and having Dtrace + KVM + Containers + ZFS + a modern userland makes for a pretty compelling set of platforms. And the CDDL license keeps most people happy. So what's not to like ?
What's not to like is that it's ridiculous stupid pointless shit. If people want to beat off they should download some naked pictures of girls or boys or whatever they are into, go into the closet and pull on it. The rest of this crap is a waste of time, energy, resources, and storage space.
No hamei, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
R.
死の神はりんごだけ食べる
開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー
J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.
Sold:
Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.
@PymbleSoftware
Current Apps -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
Visit http://www.pymblesoftware.com
Search for "Pymble", "InstaElf", "CryWhy" or "Cricket Score Sheet" in the iPad App store or search for "Pymble" or "CryWhy" in the iPhone App store.
開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー
J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.
Sold:
Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.
@PymbleSoftware
Current Apps -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
Visit http://www.pymblesoftware.com
Search for "Pymble", "InstaElf", "CryWhy" or "Cricket Score Sheet" in the iPad App store or search for "Pymble" or "CryWhy" in the iPhone App store.
PymbleSoftware wrote: No hamei, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
Just look at that horse pee he's spouting. Jesus, I'd have to go home and wash if I wrote a sentence like that. It's disgusting.
Dtrace + KVM + Containers + ZFS + a modern userland
But... Dtrace is so cool (especially some of the scripting). ZFS and snapshots are fantastique and Containers are just great... he does have a point.... afaik Linux doesn't have Dtrace (only some BSD) nor ZFS... dunno about Containers.... and Windoze has f*** all of anything useful.
You cannot fault the technologies!
"Scud" East
Sun Blade 2500 'Silver' Workstation - Dual 1.6 USIIIi, 4GB, 146GB SCSI, Solaris 10U9
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Sun Blade 2500 'Silver' Workstation - Dual 1.6 USIIIi, 4GB, 146GB SCSI, Solaris 10U9
Sun V210, 2x1.33 USIIIi, 8GB, 73GB 15K, Solaris 10U9
Sun V100, USIIi 550, 1.5GB, 40GB, Debian Lenny 5.X
hamei wrote:noth wrote: Well Illumos is the core project for OpenSolaris derived operating systems, mainly dealing with the kernel. What Joyent, Nexenta and others are making of it is extremely interesting, especially since they now have KVM. OmniOS is the current project for a pure standalone server system, if you want that, and SmartOS is for clouds, with Nexenta for storage. It's a pretty dynamic community and having Dtrace + KVM + Containers + ZFS + a modern userland makes for a pretty compelling set of platforms. And the CDDL license keeps most people happy. So what's not to like ?
What's not to like is that it's ridiculous stupid pointless shit. If people want to beat off they should download some naked pictures of girls or boys or whatever they are into, go into the closet and pull on it. The rest of this crap is a waste of time, energy, resources, and storage space.
Jesus...I don't usually waste my time replying to bullshit like that but I just had to chime in this time...I've skimmed over a few threads on nekochan.net and each and every single time there's a post that just drips with frustration, ignorance and arrogance, you can be sure it's got your username standing to the left of it...I really wonder who or whatever it was that fucked you up so much, but please, for fucks sake..get some help, asap!
Tha Funk, tha whole Funk and nothin' but tha Funk!
doalwa wrote: Jesus...I don't usually waste my time replying to bullshit like that but I just had to chime in this time...
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Telling the truth has never been a good way to make friends ....
Always fun, enthousiasm meeting the Hamei-wall.
He has a point though, beneath the rabies foam-of-the-mouth. I'm not impressed either - opensourcing Solaris was the dumbest thing Sun did in ages, losing them heaps of credibility in those areas they depended on to make money. Sure, it has one or two fun features, but... who will use them, other than the seven developers and their mom?
ZFS is cool, and yet it doesn't offer anything at all that I can't do with other tools and solutions, even if they're less of a masturbatory buzzword than ZFS. Containers is something you can do in pretty much all linux/unix operating systems. KVM *is* linux technology, and I'm not even going to comment on the "cloud" thing.
But whoa, Linux doesn't have dtrace! I bet people will care about that.
...
Oh, wait, no, they don't. They also have other tools, and they don't miss those few specific oddities much.
Really, the only *real* reason I can see to use an OSS Solaris derivative is the proper UNIX kernel, and that's at the same time the weakest part... fuck all hardware support, and not exactly stable either, as Regan said before.
He has a point though, beneath the rabies foam-of-the-mouth. I'm not impressed either - opensourcing Solaris was the dumbest thing Sun did in ages, losing them heaps of credibility in those areas they depended on to make money. Sure, it has one or two fun features, but... who will use them, other than the seven developers and their mom?
edikat wrote: But... Dtrace is so cool (especially some of the scripting). ZFS and snapshots are fantastique and Containers are just great... he does have a point.... afaik Linux doesn't have Dtrace (only some BSD) nor ZFS... dunno about Containers.... and Windoze has f*** all of anything useful.
You cannot fault the technologies!
ZFS is cool, and yet it doesn't offer anything at all that I can't do with other tools and solutions, even if they're less of a masturbatory buzzword than ZFS. Containers is something you can do in pretty much all linux/unix operating systems. KVM *is* linux technology, and I'm not even going to comment on the "cloud" thing.
But whoa, Linux doesn't have dtrace! I bet people will care about that.
...
Oh, wait, no, they don't. They also have other tools, and they don't miss those few specific oddities much.
Really, the only *real* reason I can see to use an OSS Solaris derivative is the proper UNIX kernel, and that's at the same time the weakest part... fuck all hardware support, and not exactly stable either, as Regan said before.
while (!asleep()) sheep++;
Alver wrote: ZFS is cool, and yet it doesn't offer anything at all that I can't do with other tools and solutions, even if they're less of a masturbatory buzzword than ZFS.
Would you mind going into a little more detail about other solutions that meet/exceed the hype ZFS has around ensuring data integrity? That was one of the reasons I went with it... Thanks.
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smj wrote:Alver wrote: ZFS is cool, and yet it doesn't offer anything at all that I can't do with other tools and solutions, even if they're less of a masturbatory buzzword than ZFS.
Would you mind going into a little more detail about other solutions that meet/exceed the hype ZFS has around ensuring data integrity? That was one of the reasons I went with it... Thanks.
The difference between ZFS and the rest of the world is that ZFS does everything itself, while the rest of the world tends to split tasks up. Linux MD has data verification routines to constantly check data integrity on softraid arrays, but this isn't "realtime" - it's a separate process, using unused IO capacity to keep the data sane. Since 2.6.27 there's DIX/DIF in the linux kernel, offering filesystems a set of options to enforce data integrity (which is real-time then).
But once you go beyond the local disks in the machine - I don't see many local disks in machines anymore, except (sometimes) for OS - this kind of stuff tends to be pushed to the SAN... and those have data deduplication, CRC on block content, raid, hotspares, you name it.
while (!asleep()) sheep++;
Alver wrote: Linux MD has data verification routines to constantly check data integrity on softraid arrays, but this isn't "realtime" - it's a separate process, using unused IO capacity to keep the data sane. Since 2.6.27 there's DIX/DIF in the linux kernel, offering filesystems a set of options to enforce data integrity (which is real-time then).
Thanks for taking the time - I wasn't aware of what had been happening with Linux' soft RAID the past so many years.
Alver wrote: But once you go beyond the local disks in the machine - I don't see many local disks in machines anymore, except (sometimes) for OS - this kind of stuff tends to be pushed to the SAN... and those have data deduplication, CRC on block content, raid, hotspares, you name it.
Well no, I don't see much bulk DAS in the enterprise, but then they have real budgets and teams of people to make the SAN go. I shudder to think how big my employer's payroll is for the Storage Services team...
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DG AViiON
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smj wrote:Alver wrote: But once you go beyond the local disks in the machine - I don't see many local disks in machines anymore, except (sometimes) for OS - this kind of stuff tends to be pushed to the SAN... and those have data deduplication, CRC on block content, raid, hotspares, you name it.
Well no, I don't see much bulk DAS in the enterprise, but then they have real budgets and teams of people to make the SAN go. I shudder to think how big my employer's payroll is for the Storage Services team...
Quite
storage is a big chunk of cash... but since it's been promoted to the biggest SPOF in a business, it makes sense not to hold back on investments there. Vicious circle really...
while (!asleep()) sheep++;
Alver wrote:
but since it's been promoted to the biggest SPOF in a business, it makes sense not to hold back on investments there.
Ah - that must help explain why Storage Services requires us to buy each disk we want them to use to provide storage to our machines at EMC list prices, then charges us a metered fee each month based on how much of that space we're using, in addition to the fees just to have the machine connected to their SAN several times for multipathing and all that. And thankfully I've forgotten the details of how they rape our budgets for tape-based backups - or used to, maybe they've stopped by now (was still relevant ~4 years back).
Meh. Let's go back to speculating about Illumos/OpenIndiana/OpenSolaris...
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smj wrote:
Ah - that must help explain why Storage Services requires us to buy each disk we want them to use to provide storage to our machines at EMC list prices, then charges us a metered fee each month based on how much of that space we're using, in addition to the fees just to have the machine connected to their SAN ...
Where there's blood, there will be leeches ...
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Meh. Let's go back to speculating about Illumos/OpenIndiana/OpenSolaris...
Let me go find my pom-poms. I think they're stored somewhere in the Cloud
smj wrote:
Alver wrote:
ZFS is cool, and yet it doesn't offer anything at all that I can't do with other tools and solutions, even if they're less of a masturbatory buzzword than ZFS.
Would you mind going into a little more detail about other solutions that meet/exceed the hype ZFS has around ensuring data integrity? That was one of the reasons I went with it... Thanks.
I've been using ZFS myself, both at home and for "enterprise" purposes. As a virt store, it's simply the most convenient, self-contained way to do things. Usually when you're doing virt deployments, you don't always have the luxury of handing over to storage experts who will be in perpetual attendance. ZFS taking care of things is a blessing in many ways. Soft raid, SSD-aware placement, built-in snapshotting, integrity, performance, relatively simple management etc. are all good fits for our use case(s). There's also the added benefit that ZFS implementations are available for Solaris and derivatives (most solid, imho), FreeBSD (next best - and free!) as well as Linux. So there's choice as far as the underlying OS is concerned.
BTW, I spent *weeks* with IBM GPFS. Obviously, like most IBM products, it's "well engineered", but what a pain in the *rear* to get up and running. Just an absolute nightmare. No way a medium sized IT dept. familiar with run of the mill v12n systems would be able to deploy or maintain the beast. That's why the v12n storage backends are migrating towards appliance stories. Look at nexenta, pivot3, nutanix, v3 and others. It's all about integrated simplicity. No one wants to jack with 5,000 components individually. ZFS does make things simple(r).
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sgifanatic wrote:
... it's simply the most convenient, self-contained way to do things... ZFS taking care of things is a blessing in many ways. Soft raid, SSD-aware placement, built-in snapshotting, integrity, performance, relatively simple management etc. are all good ... There's also the added benefit that ZFS implementations are available for ... FreeBSD ...
This.
I have used FreeBSD since the 3.x days, and a while after ZFS came to FreeBSD, I had to try it out. I found out it was quite easy to learn, and relatively maintenance-free.
Now I use it for all my storage needs (fileservers, NAS boxes (using FreeNAS) and so on). It hasn't let me down yet (knock on wood).
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Torfinn
tingo wrote:
sgifanatic wrote:
... it's simply the most convenient, self-contained way to do things... ZFS taking care of things is a blessing in many ways. Soft raid, SSD-aware placement, built-in snapshotting, integrity, performance, relatively simple management etc. are all good ... There's also the added benefit that ZFS implementations are available for ... FreeBSD ...
This.
I have used FreeBSD since the 3.x days, and a while after ZFS came to FreeBSD, I had to try it out. I found out it was quite easy to learn, and relatively maintenance-free.
Now I use it for all my storage needs (fileservers, NAS boxes (using FreeNAS) and so on). It hasn't let me down yet (knock on wood).
Yeah, it's really very nice. I am setting up another FreeNAS box right now. Love it.
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