Getting Started, Documentation, Tips & Tricks

13w3 to vga won't work

** completely noob **

Hello all.
(I'm an SGI virgin sort to speak).

I just got a Indigo^2 machine (purple).
I got a 13w3 to VGA connector (I think it's SGI/SUN one) and hook it to my Sony 17" flat panel VGA access.
The Indigo has two 13w3 cards on it's back.

I power up the machine, it powers up (green light on the indigo turns on) but nothing else happens.
I've tried both cards, and I still can't get video output what-so-ever.

Any ideas?
squigly wrote:
I got a 13w3 to VGA connector (I think it's SGI/SUN one) and hook it to my Sony 17" flat panel VGA access.

There is no such thing as an SGI/SUN adapter - it is an SGI adapter or a SUN adapter. The 10 small center pins route sync signals differently between the two. If it is a SUN adapter, it will not work with your monitor using standard sync signals. There is another potential method of syncing, however. The three large coaxial contacts in the 13W3 connector carry R,G,B (red, green, blue) signals. Those are standard between the two connectors, and all SGIs also support sending the sync signals on the green connection, in a format called Sync-On-Green (SOG). If your Sony monitor supports SOG signaling , you should be able to make it work even with a SUN adapter as the RGB lines are the same. However, in some cases the small center pins screw up the signaling anyway - it's possible to then make the adapter function by cutting out the offending pins (IIRC it's pin 9, but if you're doing this (using SOG) it's safe to snip them all and difficult to cut just one anyway). Check monitor support first, or get a for-certain SGI adapter that supports H/V sync. Note that some SGI models cannot disable sending sync signals on green (they're always there), which causes some monitors to have a green tint even when the proper H/V sync signals are routed correctly, so the only guarrantee is to use a SOG monitor. I have had good luck with non-SOG monitors but others aren't so lucky.
Thanks for the reply dc_v01.
I called it SGI/SUN just cause that's what the Ebay title indicated.
Is there a way to distinguish them other then just take the seller word on it?
Maybe too late to be useful, sorry I was out for a week.

Those eBay SUN/SGI adapters are SUN adapters. They will only work with SOG monitors on SGI as I described above. If you wish to confirm, use a multimeter and compare the pinout to those for your workstation in the owner's manual on techpubs.sgi.com . Pay particular attention to pins 3, 4, 5 if IIRC on the 13W3. You will find they don't line up with the pinout of a standard VGA 15 pin connector.
Thx again mate :)

I've just ordered a "confirmed SGI" adapter from someone who *seems* to know what he's talking about, and I've sent the original seller on ebay a rant telling him he should be more accurate in describing the item. I think he discreetly redirected my rant to /dev/null though.

When it'll arrive, I'll pick up from there with my Indigo, I'll keep the forum updated for what it's worth.

Cheers mate.
squigly wrote: Thx again mate :)

I've just ordered a "confirmed SGI" adapter from someone who *seems* to know what he's talking about, and I've sent the original seller on ebay a rant telling him he should be more accurate in describing the item. I think he discreetly redirected my rant to /dev/null though.

When it'll arrive, I'll pick up from there with my Indigo, I'll keep the forum updated for what it's worth.

Cheers mate.


Did you by any chance buy your adapter from this guy? If so, I'd be curious to know how it works out for you, and if not, I'd like to know your source.
:Indigo2IMP:
TypeZero wrote:
Did you by any chance buy your adapter from this guy? If so, I'd be curious to know how it works out for you, and if not, I'd like to know your source.


I did buy an adapter from this guy. The description on the item was, "13W3 to PC/VGA/HD15 cable adapter SGI Indy workstation" and it worked fine. I have tried it with an Indy, 3 Indigos and an Octane and it worked ok on all of them. No green tint or anything.

Now, that said, I think $30 for an adaptor which doesn't have any logic circuitry and is simply routing cables is a bit ridiculous; at the time I didn't feel like acquiring 13w3 connectors, 15-pin vga connectors and building a cable myself since I thought I only needed one. However, now that I've got several new SGI boxen and will probably require 4 or 5 of these, I'll be ordering the components to build these myself.
--
:Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Fuel: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP:
a little late, now, but ... just for the records:

it is possible to make a VGA monitor work with the Indigo 2 machine,
even if that monitor is _not_ capable to handle SOG.

One has to carefully read through the tech specs to find out that HSync/VSync
are already put out to some pins on the SGI's 13W3 monitor jack on the indigo2.
Then figure out how to connect these to a standard HDSUB15 - et voila.
Soldering expertise required, though.

I did let go all of my Indigo 2 beauties (had a dozen or so) on eBay long ago,
but still own the two adaptor cables I once built.

It is also possible to implement a hardware hack that makes a SGI GDM20D11
accept standard VGA signals - the input stage hardware can process H/Vsync,
one only has to connect the adjacent pins and add one R and C component.

For some reason unknown, SGI preferred the SOG over HSync/VSync so much,
they simply did not connect the latter sometimes even if were available.
Valueing life is not weakness; disregarding it is not strength. -Mirage-
Image
Get a cheap TFT with Sync-On-Green and voilĂ . It does exist dual SGI/SUN-adapaters, in fact I own one (which actually works :D ).
SGI Systems: R4K :Indigo: /256MB/XS-24, R5K 150MHz :Indy: /160MB/XL-24, R10K 175MHz :O2: /640MB, R12K 400MHz :Octane2: /Vpro6/1GB & R4K 250 MHz :Indigo2IMP: /128 MB/XZ Extreme/GIO64 FDDI

"It's a UNIX system! I know this! "
Nihilus wrote: Get a cheap TFT with Sync-On-Green and voilĂ . It does exist dual SGI/SUN-adapaters, in fact I own one (which actually works :D ).
I'm glad it worked for you, but your post might inadvertently add confusion to a situation that seems to have resulted in more than enough confusion already.

If yours is one of the all too common generic 13W3 to VGA adapters that some sellers wrongly market as being compatible with either SGI or Sun 13W3 graphics connectors, it probably works because your TFT supports sync-on-green, not because it supports both SGI and Sun 13W3 pin-outs. To be fully SGI/Sun compliant it would need to provide some method of changing the pin-out, either by means configuration jumpers or some other method. If the adapter is hardwired it is probaly not fully compliant with both the SGI and Sun versions of Sync-on-green without the addition of some circuitry.

For an explanation of why it works when connected to your sync-on-green TFT, see dc_v01's posts from earlier in this thread <emphasis added>:
dc_v01 wrote: There is no such thing as an SGI/SUN adapter - it is an SGI adapter or a SUN adapter. The 10 small center pins route sync signals differently between the two. If it is a SUN adapter, it will not work with your monitor using standard sync signals. There is another potential method of syncing, however. The three large coaxial contacts in the 13W3 connector carry R,G,B (red, green, blue) signals. Those are standard between the two connectors, and all SGIs also support sending the sync signals on the green connection, in a format called Sync-On-Green (SOG). If your Sony monitor supports SOG signaling, you should be able to make it work even with a SUN adapter as the RGB lines are the same. However, in some cases the small center pins screw up the signaling anyway - it's possible to then make the adapter function by cutting out the offending pins (IIRC it's pin 9, but if you're doing this (using SOG) it's safe to snip them all and difficult to cut just one anyway). Check monitor support first, or get a for-certain SGI adapter that supports H/V sync. Note that some SGI models cannot disable sending sync signals on green (they're always there), which causes some monitors to have a green tint even when the proper H/V sync signals are routed correctly, so the only guarrantee is to use a SOG monitor. I have had good luck with non-SOG monitors but others aren't so lucky.

Those eBay SUN/SGI adapters are SUN adapters. They will only work with SOG monitors on SGI as I described above . If you wish to confirm, use a multimeter and compare the pinout to those for your workstation in the owner's manual on techpubs.sgi.com . Pay particular attention to pins 3, 4, 5 if IIRC on the 13W3. You will find they don't line up with the pinout of a standard VGA 15 pin connector.
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* InfiniteReality/Reality Software, IRIX 6.5 Release *
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Those eBay SUN/SGI adapters are SUN adapters. They will only work with SOG monitors on SGI as I described above . If you wish to confirm, use a multimeter and compare the pinout to those for your workstation in the owner's manual on techpubs.sgi.com. Pay particular attention to pins 3, 4, 5 if IIRC on the 13W3. You will find they don't line up with the pinout of a standard VGA 15 pin connector.


As mentioned above, this is true in general, but: SGI Indigo2 machines *do* put out Hsync/Vsync as well as RGB/SOG,
so it is possible to connect them to non-SOG monitors without any additional hardware, solely by correct wiring.
I don't know if there were variants in the Indigo2 family, mine all were of the R10k Impact type.
These worked fine on Eizo FlexScan L985EX monitors, which are - AFAIK - not capable to synchronize on green.

I got two working 13W3-to-HDSUB25 cables here and am willing to let go for shipment costs if someone wants one.
Valueing life is not weakness; disregarding it is not strength. -Mirage-
Image
edefault wrote: As mentioned above, this is true in general, but: SGI Indigo2 machines *do* put out Hsync/Vsync as well as RGB/SOG,
so it is possible to connect them to non-SOG monitors without any additional hardware, solely by correct wiring.These worked fine on Eizo FlexScan L985EX monitors, which are - AFAIK - not capable to synchronize on green.
I'm not disputing your assertion - I haven't used an Indigo2 in over 5 years, and then only with SGI-branded 13W3 CRTs.

As a moderator I guess I sometimes tend to see things from a different perspective. The nekochan archives have become a knowledge base for those seeking SGI/IRIX info. I've received more than a few PMs from members with newly acquired SGI hardware, who purchased the wrong 13W3 adapter based on an "Sun/SGI adapter worked for me" post that didn't include an explanation of the circumstances under which it worked <there are numerous "why doesn't this 13w3 adapter work?" posts on nekochan>.

I have no doubt you and Nihilus both have success with 13W3 adapters that are not SGI specific. My intent was to make clear to anyone who didn't already know that the use of an adapter with a Sun 13W3 pin-out requires specific underlying circumstances such as a SoG compliant monitor <or as you pointed out, specific SGI graphics hardware>.

Our collective knowledge on the issue grows every time some one posts how they were able to successfully resolve the 13W3 to VGA issue. I'm not suggesting that either you or Nihilus have, but when that post consists only of a brief statement that implies that any Sun/SGI adapters will work <without some accompanying detail of the specific circumstances>, it doesn't don't do the SGI/IRIX user community any favors in the long run.
***********************************************************************
Welcome to ARMLand - 0/0x0d00
running...(sherwood-root 0607201829)
* InfiniteReality/Reality Software, IRIX 6.5 Release *
***********************************************************************
[...] it doesn't don't do the SGI/IRIX user community any favors in the long run.


yep, agreed.

Best practice for Indigo2 owners:
First read tech specs, esp. pinouts, then practice some soldering.
That makes buying adaptors, regardless of what flavor, obsolete.

Both Indigo2 machines and GDM20D11 monitors have dormant options
already built in which allow for interfacing w/o need for sync-on-green.
Valueing life is not weakness; disregarding it is not strength. -Mirage-
Image
edefault wrote:
Those eBay SUN/SGI adapters are SUN adapters. They will only work with SOG monitors on SGI as I described above . If you wish to confirm, use a multimeter and compare the pinout to those for your workstation in the owner's manual on techpubs.sgi.com. Pay particular attention to pins 3, 4, 5 if IIRC on the 13W3. You will find they don't line up with the pinout of a standard VGA 15 pin connector.


As mentioned above, this is true in general, but: SGI Indigo2 machines *do* put out Hsync/Vsync as well as RGB/SOG,
so it is possible to connect them to non-SOG monitors without any additional hardware, solely by correct wiring.
I don't know if there were variants in the Indigo2 family, mine all were of the R10k Impact type.
These worked fine on Eizo FlexScan L985EX monitors, which are - AFAIK - not capable to synchronize on green.

I got two working 13W3-to-HDSUB25 cables here and am willing to let go for shipment costs if someone wants one.


edefault, I think you need to read my post carefully above - we are actually in agreement in principle . I have for years been trying to clarify and post info here on neckochan on why you don't need SOG monitors with SGIs - every system since the Indigo has put out proper H/V sync somewhere. In fact, I am quite sure that a number of posts about "SOG capable" monitors have been made, solely because the mointor works with an SGI, when the posters are actually using proper SGI 13W3 adapters, routing the H/V sync, and there is no way to tell with those adapters if it is using the SOG signal or not!

The el-cheapo SUN/SGI adapters sold on eBay are NOT proper SGI adapters, because they do NOT route the H/V sync for an SGI , and you will need to have a SOG monitor. They were made for SUNs. I'm not saying the SGI doesn't produce H/V sync, I'm saying those adapters do not route/send the signals to the proper pins on the VGA HD15 connector. Read my post about pins 3,4,5 - those are the SGI sync pins, 4 and 5 are H/V sync. SUN uses different pins, so an adapter cannot be both a SUN and an SGI adapter simultaneously (I neglect some expensive adapters that have DIP switches to set the pinouts - thanks recondas for pointing this out!). If your 13W3 routes pins 4 and 5 to pins 13 and 14 on the HD15, you have an SGI adapter. If not, it is probably a SUN or other (IBM, etc.) adapter. Unfortunately SUN adapters are much more common, due to sales volume. It is much harder to find a proper SGI adapter. SUN adapters can be made to work with SOG monitors as described earlier, because you don't need the H/V signals routed and can rely on just the 3 coaxial connections. Or you can break out the soldering iron, as you did, but that's more complicated for a lot of people.
This is the best thread ever!

I have been using a CRT with SOG for 2 years because I had a "sun" adapter, I never knew there was a difference. Everything I read was SOG or TFB. This should be noted somewhere in a sticky post or something.

Thanks for the info guys! :mrgreen:
Nate

:Octane2: Octane2, Dual 300, V8, 2GB RAM, 2 x 73GB HD
:O2: :1600SW: o2, 200MHz, 448MB RAM A/V, 1600sw, 300 GB HD
cinenate35 wrote: Everything I read was SOG or TFB. This should be noted somewhere in a sticky post or something.

PymbleSoftware added info from one of our previous threads to the wiki:
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/13w3_to_VGA