Miscellaneous Operating Systems/Hardware

Ars on reality of using old 'puters & SGI accelerator idea? - Page 1

Here's the link:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/my ... amusement/

While many of the points made herein are Mac OS 9 specific, such as the poor multithreading which is probably what manifests itself in the brief "lockups", in general, the browser focused commentary we can all relate to. The browser is the one application which has well and truly left old computers behind. And while my old-schoolness is rearing its head here when I refer to the browser as an "application", the fact is it's not. It's a platform for uncountable numbers of applications. We might complain about bloated web pages, and slow Javascript, and N-layers of containment, sandboxing and inefficiency that browser based apps dictate, but... whatever. Fact is, that's where much of the new app dev is happening.

As painful as it is, an old gen-1 Atom N270 has about 4 times the MIPS (the measure of compute, not the proc :-) ) that a Fuel 700Mhz does. I can still play more concurrent video streams on a Fuel than an Atom will handle, but in the web browsing department, it's a different story.

There have been all sorts of custom add-on boards designed for the Apple II, Commodore, Amiga and Atari communities. Stuff that lets these machines access SD card storage, provides proc acceleration, etc. I wonder about a little browser offload card add-on for our SGIs... it could also provide USB ports, storage, wireless & security services (firewall)... I'm thinking a dual NIC BananaPi connecting directly to the SGI NIC, providing DHCP services, a modern browser via XDMCP and firewall services. Second NIC on Banana goes to uplink. This also adds USB ports to SGIs (exported auto via NFS to host) and wireless. A nice 3-d printed case to match the design sensibilities of *pick your favorite SGI*, and voila!
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:Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Fuel: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP:
AIUI, OS9 (and the ones before) had cooperative multitasking, and thus if an app was doin' stuff, another couldn't before the first one let it. I doubt there even was multithreading there...
:Octane: halo , oct ane
N.B.: I tend to talk out of my ass. Do not take it too seriously.
duck wrote: AIUI, OS9 (and the ones before) had cooperative multitasking, and thus if an app was doin' stuff, another couldn't before the first one let it. I doubt there even was multithreading there...


There was some optional API that a few apps used to run the old "multiprocessing" apps. It must have divided up the tasks into something slightly reminiscent of a fun-house mirror representation of a thread, because I don't see how it could have done separate processes.
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

There are those who say I'm a bit of a curmudgeon. To them I reply: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

:Indigo: :Octane: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: :PI: :O3x0: :ChallengeL: :O2000R: (single-CM)
They were called MPTasks but they were really a very primitive type of thread. They worked very well for a specific purpose, but they could not interact with the GUI, and essentially were a function of the PowerPC nanokernel. I used a limited version of them in Classilla for timers.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred , 800MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy , 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze , R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce , Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * HP C8000 * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...
in OSX you still can't interact with the GUI from any thread except the main one....
I guess that means it's still primitive ;)
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
Right, but in classic Mac OS, all UI stuff was cooperatively multitasked, so any component of an application in the "blue task" (as it was called) that didn't yield could still hang up the system. You can't do that in OS X.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred , 800MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy , 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze , R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce , Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * HP C8000 * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...
and yet you can confuse the windowserver enough that the keyboard is useless...
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
My complaint with their newer versions is that sometimes the pointer will disappear. Randomly. Either that, or I am starting to go blind :shock:
You eat Cadillacs; Lincolns too... Mercurys and Subarus.
guardian452 wrote: My complaint with their newer versions is that sometimes the pointer will disappear. Randomly. Either that, or I am starting to go blind :shock:


You are not going blind. This happens to me at least a few times every single week.
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:Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Fuel: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP:
sgifanatic wrote: [...] the browser focused commentary we can all relate to. The browser is the one application which has well and truly left old computers behind. And while my old-schoolness is rearing its head here when I refer to the browser as an "application", the fact is it's not. It's a platform for uncountable numbers of applications. We might complain about bloated web pages, and slow Javascript, and N-layers of containment, sandboxing and inefficiency that browser based apps dictate, but... whatever. Fact is, that's where much of the new app dev is happening.


Indeed, I waited for such an article. Modern webbrowsing is the culprit that many otherwise good computers go to the dumpster.
:Octane2: 2xR12000 400MHz, 4GB RAM, V12
SGI - the legend will never die!!
sgifanatic wrote: There have been all sorts of custom add-on boards designed for the Apple II, Commodore, Amiga and Atari communities. Stuff that lets these machines access SD card storage, provides proc acceleration, etc. I wonder about a little browser offload card add-on for our SGIs... it could also provide USB ports, storage, wireless & security services (firewall)... I'm thinking a dual NIC BananaPi connecting directly to the SGI NIC, providing DHCP services, a modern browser via XDMCP and firewall services. Second NIC on Banana goes to uplink. This also adds USB ports to SGIs (exported auto via NFS to host) and wireless. A nice 3-d printed case to match the design sensibilities of *pick your favorite SGI*, and voila!


Thoughts on the above viz web browser acceleration?
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:Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Fuel: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP:
Has Classic given up on Classilla? Or is TenFourFox just taking up all of your time?
SGI:
:A3502L: Dual Itanium [email protected] 4GB Marisa
:Octane2: Dual R14000A@600MHz 2GB V12 Sakuya
Non-SGI:
HP C8000
HP EliteBook 8560p [email protected] 16GB Youmu FreeBSD 10.1/Windows 8.1
IBM IntelliStation 265 Dual POWER3-II@450MHz Jigoku-Karasu ( Hell Raven )

Incoming/On bench for repair/not in service:
2x :O3x0: Origin 300

For Sale: O2 DIMMS, Octane and O2 caddies.
sgifanatic wrote:
sgifanatic wrote: There have been all sorts of custom add-on boards designed for the Apple II, Commodore, Amiga and Atari communities. Stuff that lets these machines access SD card storage, provides proc acceleration, etc. I wonder about a little browser offload card add-on for our SGIs... it could also provide USB ports, storage, wireless & security services (firewall)... I'm thinking a dual NIC BananaPi connecting directly to the SGI NIC, providing DHCP services, a modern browser via XDMCP and firewall services. Second NIC on Banana goes to uplink. This also adds USB ports to SGIs (exported auto via NFS to host) and wireless. A nice 3-d printed case to match the design sensibilities of *pick your favorite SGI*, and voila!


Thoughts on the above viz web browser acceleration?


For the browser part: running to a Fuel/Octane via gigabit would probably be pretty workable. I do recall having some issues with missing X extensions, but perhaps that could be resolved. The real hack would be, say, a GIO card for Indigo/Indy/Indigo2. Something like the SunPCI card?
:Octane2: :Indy: :O2: :O2: :O3x0: :Indigo2IMP:
Geoman wrote: Modern webbrowsing is the culprit that many otherwise good computers go to the dumpster.

What I am puzzled by is the recent proliferation of totally useless websites. I don't mean on a taste basis .... for example, search < elco> and you'll be swamped in junk such as :

http://boatorchik.net/elco-motor-boats/

There is nothing there. It's some irrelevant common photos and smashed-together gibberish text. Nothing anyone would want to click on, no advertising.

What do people get out of sites like this ? There must be a reason or there wouldn't be 50,000 of them swamping every search. And they aren't free to own, either.
he said a girl named Patches was found ...
TeamBlackFox wrote: Has Classic given up on Classilla? Or is TenFourFox just taking up all of your time?


Mostly the latter. Classilla's layout engine is probably hopeless, but I am trying to get it to accept SHA-2 certificates and brush up its SSL a bit.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred , 800MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy , 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze , R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce , Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * HP C8000 * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...
hamei, sites like that aren't made for humans. They're made by and for machines, to SEO certain search terms with links to and from other useless sites.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
robespierre wrote: They're made by and for machines, to SEO certain search terms with links to and from other useless sites.

Could we make seo a capital offense ? Zero tolerance ?

Seriously, if they keep this crap up the web will choke itself in its own entrails.
he said a girl named Patches was found ...
hamei wrote:
robespierre wrote: They're made by and for machines, to SEO certain search terms with links to and from other useless sites.

Could we make seo a capital offense ? Zero tolerance ?

Seriously, if they keep this crap up the web will choke itself in its own entrails.

As if we aren't already choking on spam.
:Crimson: :Onyx: :O2000: :O200: :O200: :PI: :PI: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Octane: :O2: :1600SW: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Cube:

Image <-------- A very happy forum member.
hamei wrote:
robespierre wrote: They're made by and for machines, to SEO certain search terms with links to and from other useless sites.

Could we make seo a capital offense ? Zero tolerance ?

Seriously, if they keep this crap up the web will choke itself in its own entrails.


I put forth this thought only because I am working on AI/ML and Cognitive algorithms for my day job... if a human being can tell it's nonsense, why can't a computer? This is a classification problem and it sounds to me like there is a lot of room for improvement.
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:Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Indigo: :Fuel: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo2: :Indigo2IMP:
For any (sufficiently powerful) formal system, there will always be a true statement that it can't prove... this has implications for spam classifiers.
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