SGI: Hardware

bri3d wrote:

JacquesT wrote: I believe the Fuel V12 won't work in the Octane XIO slots. But I could be wrong...but think not!

You're right. The Fuel V12 also doesn't just "work" in Origin 3xxx or 350 - even with an XIO brick. You need a special (and unbelievably rare) InfinitePerformace V-Brick to use it with these systems.

So basically the Fuel V12 is for Fuel, and not much else.

This statement isn't quite accurate - there is the Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance system that has a V12 card installed in it. This is a standard O350 chassis, nothing super special about it.

The V-bricks were really for O3000 series systems, originally intended as a cheap alternative to a G-brick they are in very very short supply now, meaning they cost far more than a G-brick.

Back to the V12 card though, I'm not sure if the Fuel V12 the original poster has will just fit the O350 chassis and turn it into a IP system - there is a O350 IP on Ebay.de at the moment and the board number for the V12 is 030-1909-003 which doesnt show up in any Fuel HINV's out in the wild, so i'm guessing it is unique.

The V12's in the V-brick I have are a different number again though.

I'm almost tempted to buy one now to see if it will go in a O350 Onyx I have, currently running an IR4 brick.... might be worth a go as I barely turn it on these days, G-bricks do like to suck up the power!

Judging from the inside of my O350s, there's nowhere to put a Fuel-style V12 (or anything but PCI cards, for that matter)... I just don't see where it'd fit. Do you know if the InfinitePerformance O350s had a special backplane as well?

The rear panel of the Onyx 350 Compute with IP graphics :


and without IP graphics :


The manual obliquely mentions <in a 'note'>:

Note: Because of the placement of the IP graphics card within the module, the option of a redundant cooling fan or DigitalMediaPro DM3 option is not available with this unit.

While it looks like the graphics are placed where one of the cooling fans are normally located, that doesn't answer your question on how the graphics are connected once installed <or even if they can be>.

Here's a couple photos of an Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance system <in a half-rack>:
I'm still looking for an interior shot of the IP graphics module.

OK - well that explains where it fits, but, like you said not how it connects... I think there must have been some kind of differing backplane option, unless someone with an O350 is seeing something I'm missing (I do tend to be blind sometimes ).

Toby did mention:

tjsgifan wrote: there is the Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance system that has a V12 card installed in it. This is a standard O350 chassis, nothing super special about it.

If you'd like some details, here's the hinv and gfxinfo from the one Toby mentioned <that's where the photos came from as well>.:

OK I'll open up my O350. It has a DM3 board installed in one of the units where the V12 is shown in the system above, but the 2nd module has a 2nd fan unit installed which should be removable. I'll take some photo's too as it would be interesting to see the backplane connection, I would have assumed there would be something different for the fan unit, but I've never looked that close.

hmm... hinv doesn't have any extra parts over my system listed beyond the ODYSSEY -

Maybe I didn't look closely enough last time I opened it up; I think I'll try that now.

The ability to put a V12 in my system without having to find anything *too* rare would be very cool.

Huh? Here's the inside of my O350s - that's pretty clearly the connector for a Tezro/Fuel-style V12, but how would a V12 occupy the same space as the node box (that's the box to the bottom/left of the picture; I know that the blower at the top is removable)?

I *really* want to see the inside of Performance now - did they rearrange the inside of the system or what?

UPDATE: Just had another theory - my system is IP59 / R16K @ 1GHz; maybe 1Ghz O350 was never produced with graphics, and the node box is bigger.

If someone has pics of the inside of another O350 from this angle or especially one with V12, I'd appreciate it.

Read down the whole thread to learn how this was done - basically if you can make an ODYSSEY board physically fit into an Origin350, it'll become an Onyx350 InfinitePerformance.

Hey - kind of hijacked this thread with questions about this earlier... found some more information though, so I thought I'd compile everything I've learned thus far here:

Moderator Edit: Merged the related posts from the topic mentioned above to consolidate the subject matter. <recondas>

The Origin 350 seems to have a slot for a V12 ODYSSEY graphics card, with connection that looks very similar to that used in Fuel and Tezro. SGI made a supported config, the Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance that had this slot filled with a V12. However, the V12 used in this slot had a part number which differed from the V12 in Fuel and Tezro.

My Origin 350s, dual 1Ghz R16ks, seem to be physically unable to take the ODYSSEY card - the (slower) Origin 350 shown here: http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/gallery2/v/SGI_ ... G.jpg.html , seems to have space around the slot to fit a card, whereas mine, shown in the attachment, seems to be lacking enough room to throw a V12 in.

So the remaining information I'd like is:

Pictures of the inside of an Onyx 350 with a V12, just for reference purposes on how it slots in / fits...

Anyone who's tried putting a Fuel or Tezro V12 in an Onyx or Origin 350 - does it work, or is that part number difference really significant?

Any information on a 1Ghz Onyx 350 - I think maybe with the giant metal box around the node board removed, a V12 might fit even in my 1Ghz, but removing the metal box requires quite literally taking apart the entire system (it's obvious SGI *really* didn't want this done - there are screws that can only be removed by unseating the entire CPU + memory board assembly, removing it from the case, and taking it apart). Was there perhaps a model made with a different metal box?

I think as more Origin 350s show up on eBay/auctions/craigslist and in the hands of eager Nekochanners, we'll start to see a lot more interest in this subject - an Origin 350 with a V12 would be basically a very cheap Tezro...

I'm going to try buying a Fuel/Tezro V10 (as they're dirt-cheap) and somehow shoehorning it into my system (I think if I take the entire system apart, I can get that gigantic metal box off of the node board, and then if I can invent some alternate cooling I think I can make the board fit - it'll be a pretty complex project but nothing especially dangerous), and seeing if it works (the chances are lower, since V10 in O350 was never a supported SGI config, but we'll see...)

Very interesting to see where this is going.
Does the Origin350 have possibilities for keyboard and mouse?

I have been involved in turning an Origin2k into an Onyx2MXE in the beginning of 'experiments'
Back then I soldered a dual PS/2 connector to the IO6 board, put a SE gfx card into the O2k and connected
mouse and keyboard to the IO6. These gfx, mouse & keyboard did work perfectly to get into the system
but after loading IRIX the mouse & keyboard did not work anymore. In the end someone else on this forum solved it
by adding a PCI card with keyboard, mouse & ethernet card to it and then it worked.
Also replacing the IO6 by an IO6G did the job.

So maybe we can do this trick again and convert Origin350s into Onyx350s

Please keep us updated!

There were Tezro rack mount models which I figured they were basically the same as an Origin/Onyx 300/350. Perhaps UltmatePerformance was a different marketing name for the Tezro rack model.

I thought Tezro's were V12 only, I only know this because there was a discussion about a V10 Tezro on ebay which happened because someone had a V10 from a Fuel and a Tezro w/o graphics. The datasheet seems to support this.

Do you mean InfinitePerfromance? Not UltimatePerformance.

loonvf wrote: Does the Origin350 have possibilities for keyboard and mouse?

Yes, there are PS/2 K&M ports, or via an added USB card <then PROM/IRIX support would be similar to the O300 series>.

loonvf wrote: I have been involved in turning an Origin2k into an Onyx2MXE

Indeed you were. I had a lot of fun with the O2k graphics mod - thanks for your contributions!

japes wrote: Do you mean InfinitePerfromance? Not UltimatePerformance.

I'm pretty sure he did, UltimatePerformance is truly a horse of a different color - it's ATI based.

japes wrote: There were Tezro rack mount models which I figured they were basically the same as an Origin/Onyx 300/350.

Interesting thought. There's a Onyx 350 IP hinv in the topic linked in bri3d's post. The part number for the IP V12 <030-1909-003> seems to be unique <although to be fair, I wasn't able to turn up an hinv or part number for a Tezro rack system>. The Tezro Visual Workstation Hardware User's Guide: Rackmount Configuration Guide does have an illustration of the rack-type V12:

recondas wrote:

japes wrote: Do you mean InfinitePerfromance? Not UltimatePerformance.

I'm pretty sure he did, UltimatePerformance is truly a horse of a different color - it's ATI based.

I actually just totally butchered it, I think, the ATI thing is UltimateVision. D'oh.

Anyway, there seem to be a variety of "Fuel/Tezro" V12 part numbers listed as well, so maybe it's just different board revisions of some sort - does anyone know the difference between any of these in the first place?


Like I said, I'm just going to buy a V10 in the coming weeks, put it in there, and see what happens - as long as it doesn't fry my O350, which I see no way it will (unless I goof up the cooling mods I'm going to need to make), I'm happy with whatever outcome I get... we'll never learn anything if nobody tries I know my chances are better with a V12, since it was the real supported config, but V10s are extremely cheap, since they came standard config in Fuel and Tezro so they're not an upgrade, wheras V12s are still several hundred USD.

loonvf wrote: Does the Origin350 have possibilities for keyboard and mouse?

Via an NEC USB OHCI controller in a PCI slot, yep, just like Origin3xxx. Audio, too, via one of the IRIX-supported audio cards (M-Audio Revolution, Audigy2 ZS, etc.). If this graphics mod works I'll have a pretty nice workstation setup - basically a cheap Tezro

loonvf wrote: In the end someone else on this forum solved it
by adding a PCI card with keyboard, mouse & ethernet card to it and then it worked.
Also replacing the IO6 by an IO6G did the job.

I'm actually running one of these setups right now (Origin2000, CADDuo in a PCI carrier, and SI graphics) - nice job pioneering it

loonvf wrote: So maybe we can do this trick again and convert Origin350s into Onyx350s
Please keep us updated!

Will do, I think the differences are even less significant between Origin350 and Onyx350 - as a matter of fact, I think Onyx350 InfiniteReality was quite literally Origin350s with different text on the case, since you can hook an Origin350 up to a G-Brick and obtain an Onyx350 just fine this way.

It's interesting to see the Tezro though, I'm beginning to thing that maybe Tezro rackmount was just a rebranded Onyx350 IP... the cooling setup in that looks very different from mine though (ducts over the RAM and an open box over the CPUs to let air blow all the way over the graphics), so I think my suspicions about having to take apart my node box and redo the cooling are 100% correct (thankfully, it's not too hard, SGI just made it a pain by putting half of the mounting screws on the bottom of the board, so I have to remove the board from the case).

How about the noise issue ?

I mean I own a O200 and the 3 (huge) fans are so noisy that it's impossible to work next to it.

How similar are the Origin 300s to the 350s?

I may have access to some 300s.

bri3d wrote: as you can see the bedrock gets pretty hot but I'm at altitude (8000ft) so it might be an effect of that rather than my hacky cooling.

Code: Select all

Advisory   Critical   Fault      Current
Description       State       Temp       Temp       Temp       Temp
----------------- ----------  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------
6 BEDROCK           Enabled    [Autofan Control]    70C/158F   51C/123F

51C/123F falls under the bedrock fault temp of 70C/158F listed by your L1, but would be above the 48C/118F crtical temp given by nekonoko's O350 <and very close to his system's 55C/131F fault temp>.

The SGI Onyx 350 Visualization System User's Guide gives the average heat dissipation for the Onyx 350 with InifinitePerformance graphics at 1700 Btu/hr average, and a headless Onyx 350 compute module at 1315 Btu/hr average. A fairly large increase when you consider the InfinitePerformance system lost a significant portion of it's exhaust capacity with the removal of one of the two large 112 cfm radial fans <to allow installation of the graphics board>. That may also be why the L1 fan speed table includes a fan speed for 'Odyssey'. The 030-1909-003 V12 SGI uses in the Onyx 350 IP may have a different part number because it includes a fan.

The differences in heat dissipation and exhaust fan capacity is probably the reason the L1 env output <and fault temperatures given> for the headless and IP graphics systems are different. Apparently when an Odyssey board is detected the L1 uses a different table of fan speeds, temps and thermal zones.

recondas wrote: The differences in heat dissipation and exhaust fan capacity is probably the reason the L1 env output <and fault temperatures given> for the headless and IP graphics systems are different. The When an Odyssey board is detected the L1 uses a different table of fan speeds, temps and thermal zones.

The different fan speeds and thermal zones are almost certainly due to the Odyssey - but the different thermal cutoffs are probably to do with that I have my L1 in High Altitude mode (as I'm at altitude). I have another chassis with no Odyssey, and altitude mode can be toggled - so I'll check all that when I get home.

UPDATE: The altitude setting moves all of my fault thresholds *down* by 5C - so high altitude's fault is at 70C and low altitude's is at 75C.

My system without the ODYSSEY has the same environmental thresholds - so it might be PROM versions or it might be the Autofan thing.

I picked up my O350 today, and installed the V10 this afternoon.
I was quite lucky to get the main node of an Onyx 350 configuration, so it came with all the extras (PS2 connectors, usb card, M-Audio card, DVD drive).
Here are some more pictures of the install process :

Interesting - your Onyx350 has plastic airflow guides over the RAM while my Origin350 didn't. I would say it might be CPU-configuration dependent, but I just took a quick look and TechPubs also shows Origin350s always having no RAM covers and Onyx350s always having them. Weird.

Anyway nice job on the install - I still haven't gotten around to reworking my rear cover, so you did a far better job than I

Let us know how the environmentals hold up - I see there are fewer fans in that system.

Congratulations bplaa.yai! I agree with bri3d - nice mod on the V10 bulkhead.

When you get the opportunity, consider posting an hinv and the output of an L1 "env" to add to the info Brian has made available.