Getting Started, Documentation, Tips & Tricks

New to Nekochan and looking for hardware - Page 1

SpaceDebris
From Texas
Who joined Aug. 5, 2015, 1:59 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2015, 7:27 p.m...

Hi,
As a child in the 90s, I was lucky enough to have access to my uncle's teal Indigo2. It was actually the very first computer I ever learned how to use and it really sparked my interest in computers as kid. Unfortunately my time with that machine was short lived, my uncle moved, and I haven't even seen an SGI machine in person since 1999. I started thinking about that old Indigo2 again after stumbling across an article about SGI and now I really want to get my hands on one for nostalgic purposes. I figured a forum full of SGI enthusiasts, I'm so glad one still exists in 2015, would be a pretty good place to ask for help.

Does anyone have any advice on where to look for a teal Indigo2 or have one for sale? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Note: I know this post probably belongs in the "Hardware Wanted" section but since it's my first post I felt this section was appropriate. I'll post in the hardware wanted section as well.

nyef
Who joined April 28, 2015, 7:54 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2015, 8 p.m...

Welcome, welcome.

I see one on eBay right now as a buy-it-now, $160, free shipping, no drives, no drive caddies, damaged hinge of some sort... Apparently spins up, but no guarantee that it actually works . http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicon-Graphics-CMNB007Y75-Indigo-2-Unix-Workstation-POWER-TESTED-ON-ONLY-Used-/331604819359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d352ffd9f

If you do get this, note that it has the 13W3 connector for video. SGI and SUN 13W3 connectors are not entirely compatible, so be careful when you buy an adaptor.

hjw3001
From Silicon Valley, CA
Who joined July 30, 2015, 3:33 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2015, 8:40 p.m...

Welcome!

I recently purchased a working teal Indigo 2 from Craigslist. Create a saved search that will email you when someone lists an SGI for sale. You can also create saved searches on eBay.

200 MHz - 192 MB - R4400

foetz
Moderator
Who joined April 14, 2003, 4:34 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2015, 9:17 p.m...

welcome SpaceDebris!

in addition you could also put up a request here in our "wanted" section

r-a-c.de

vishnu
From Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Who joined March 18, 2007, 3:25 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 5, 2015, 11:16 p.m...

Welcome! Glad you found our tiny little outpost of outcasts here in the Land that Time Forgot... 8-)

Not to be a pooty parper , but unless you've got some of the applications that the Indigo2 was designed to run, for example Pro/ENGINEER, Power Animator, Maya, etc., then even a high end Indigo2 isn't going to be very useful. Or, at least not very useful for anything here in the Modern Era. You could argue, and in fact we argue about it a lot, that a higher end Octane2, Fuel, O350/Tezro are still useful for a tiny handful of tasks that the Modern Era would still consider relevant. Though I think the majority opinion here would tend to slant against that viewpoint. And that would the opinion of people who still really love these machines. I know I love mine (2x600MHz Octane2 and 2x700MHz Tezro)... :mrgreen:

Project:
Temporarily lost at sea...
Plan:
World domination! Or something...

Trippynet
From Scotland, UK
Who joined Aug. 15, 2013, 6:22 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 6, 2015, 2:04 a.m...

Indeed, it's about finding the right applications to run. My Indigo2 gets used for playing music via XMMS (300GB secondary hard drive full of tunes), for playing some ScummVM games, for messing around with Perl, and for general IRIX experimenting. Indigo2s can also be used to some degree for Blender and other 3D tasks, so long as you don't exceed the hardware's capabilities (ie, trying textured stuff with anything less than HighIMPACT). Of course, more complex work will always benefit from a higher spec machine, but I use my Indigo2 mainly because for nostalgia reasons, I have much more of a fondness for it than my Fuel, despite the additional performance that the Fuel offers.

For browsing the web or other modern tasks though, it's no good for this sort of thing, so you have to be realistic with expectations.

For obtaining a machine, I'd highly recommend a posting in "Wanted". There's often folk in the US wanting to move machines around, so if you're willing to drive a bit, you might be able to pick up a nice machine for very little.

EDIT: One quick note though, teal Indigo2s are usually MIPS R4400 processor systems. These are MIPS3, and so cannot use the main Nekoware repository. This requires MIPS4 (R5000/R7000 and R10000+). Of course with some customising of internal components, there's nothing to stop you putting the guts from a later R10000 Indigo2 into a teal case...

Systems in use:
:Fuel:

- Lithium : R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
:Indigo2IMP:

- Nitrogen : R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
Other systems in storage: :O2:

x 2,

x 2

hamei
From over the rainbow
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 6, 2015, 3:02 a.m...

Trippynet wrote: EDIT: One quick note though, teal Indigo2s are usually MIPS R4400 processor systems. These are MIPS3, and so cannot use the main Nekoware repository.

You know what ? I love the main nekoware repository, it's a great help and lots of good software but I no longer use any of it. The release notes are a big help for building the very few pieces of new fossy software that are good -- but I have been so much happier with a bare minimum of open source software. There's a few good (and indispensable, e.g. xpdf) programs but a huge amount of it is pure aggravation.

Loonix sucks.

Juliet ! the dice were loaded from the start ...

foetz
Moderator
Who joined April 14, 2003, 4:34 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 6, 2015, 12:45 p.m...

Trippynet wrote: teal Indigo2s are usually MIPS R4400 processor systems

which makes them the most versatile of all. they can run everything from irix 4 to 6.5.22

r-a-c.de

SAQ
From Renton, WA
Who joined July 19, 2006, 8:37 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 6, 2015, 4:43 p.m...

If I were getting a first SGI, I'd go Indigo2 IMPACT 10k or Octane. Both are ruggedly constructed, significantly faster than R4400, and run IRIX 6.5 (yes, R4k Indigo2 and Indigo will as well, but 10k is faster and has higher potential memory capacity). Indy isn't bad, but has a lower max memory. O2 and Fuel are smaller and faster (respectively), but seem to be more troublesome. Indigo 1 is older and has a cult following so it is harder to find/more expensive. The older you get in IRIX the less of a "standard UNIX" it is and the more oddities pop up.

If you offer to pay some and are able to pick up or pay packing/shipping at a "drop off and go" place you'll likely get more interest here. Packing to ship can be trouble for the current owner.

"Brakes??? What Brakes???"

:Indigo:

(single-CM)

Trippynet
From Scotland, UK
Who joined Aug. 15, 2013, 6:22 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 7, 2015, 4:32 a.m...

foetz wrote: which makes them the most versatile of all. they can run everything from irix 4 to 6.5.22

True, but if you want to "max out" an Indigo2, an R10000 will provide better performance, and I'd imagine he's more likely to want IRIX 6.5 than an earlier flavour.

Systems in use:
:Fuel:

- Lithium : R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
:Indigo2IMP:

- Nitrogen : R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
Other systems in storage: :O2:

x 2,

x 2

sgifanatic
From Texas
Who joined July 25, 2010, 2:47 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 7, 2015, 6:44 a.m...

I'm in central Texas and have a teal indigo2 I can part with. If you're interested, please pm me and we'll work something out.

SpaceDebris
From Texas
Who joined Aug. 5, 2015, 1:59 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 8, 2015, 5:19 p.m...

Thank you all for the helpful advice!

nyef wrote: Welcome, welcome.

I see one on eBay right now as a buy-it-now, $160, free shipping, no drives, no drive caddies, damaged hinge of some sort... Apparently spins up, but no guarantee that it actually works . http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicon-Graphics-CMNB007Y75-Indigo-2-Unix-Workstation-POWER-TESTED-ON-ONLY-Used-/331604819359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d352ffd9f

If you do get this, note that it has the 13W3 connector for video. SGI and SUN 13W3 connectors are not entirely compatible, so be careful when you buy an adaptor.

Thanks for pointing out that ebay listing. I'll certainly consider that listing if I can't find any guaranteed working systems. And thanks for the info about the 13W3 connector. I already have a few SUN 13W3 connectors and I would have tried using them without a second thought.

hjw3001 wrote: Welcome!

I recently purchased a working teal Indigo 2 from Craigslist. Create a saved search that will email you when someone lists an SGI for sale. You can also create saved searches on eBay.

Thank you for that advice! I'll set that up right now.

SpaceDebris
From Texas
Who joined Aug. 5, 2015, 1:59 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 8, 2015, 6:21 p.m...

vishnu wrote: Welcome! Glad you found our tiny little outpost of outcasts here in the Land that Time Forgot...

Not to be a pooty parper , but unless you've got some of the applications that the Indigo2 was designed to run, for example Pro/ENGINEER, Power Animator, Maya, etc., then even a high end Indigo2 isn't going to be very useful. Or, at least not very useful for anything here in the Modern Era. You could argue, and in fact we argue about it a lot, that a higher end Octane2, Fuel, O350/Tezro are still useful for a tiny handful of tasks that the Modern Era would still consider relevant. Though I think the majority opinion here would tend to slant against that viewpoint. And that would the opinion of people who still really love these machines. I know I love mine (2x600MHz Octane2 and 2x700MHz Tezro)...

That's a very good point. Luckily I may have a resource for software. A friend of mine who worked with SGI systems in he 90s claims to have a few boxes of SGI software somewhere in his garage... If not I'm guessing ebay may prove useful for software acquisition.

Trippynet wrote: Indeed, it's about finding the right applications to run. My Indigo2 gets used for playing music via XMMS (300GB secondary hard drive full of tunes), for playing some ScummVM games, for messing around with Perl, and for general IRIX experimenting. Indigo2s can also be used to some degree for Blender and other 3D tasks, so long as you don't exceed the hardware's capabilities (ie, trying textured stuff with anything less than HighIMPACT). Of course, more complex work will always benefit from a higher spec machine, but I use my Indigo2 mainly because for nostalgia reasons, I have much more of a fondness for it than my Fuel, despite the additional performance that the Fuel offers.

For browsing the web or other modern tasks though, it's no good for this sort of thing, so you have to be realistic with expectations.

For obtaining a machine, I'd highly recommend a posting in "Wanted". There's often folk in the US wanting to move machines around, so if you're willing to drive a bit, you might be able to pick up a nice machine for very little.

EDIT: One quick note though, teal Indigo2s are usually MIPS R4400 processor systems. These are MIPS3, and so cannot use the main Nekoware repository. This requires MIPS4 (R5000/R7000 and R10000+). Of course with some customising of internal components, there's nothing to stop you putting the guts from a later R10000 Indigo2 into a teal case...

Thanks for the advice.I want one primarily for nostalgic purposes so I'm certainly not expecting to get any real work done on an Indigo2. That said if it can be used for actual work I will certainly use it, primarily for the coolness factor, cool in my opinion, of using an SGI machine from the 1990s to get work done in 2015.

SpaceDebris
From Texas
Who joined Aug. 5, 2015, 1:59 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 8, 2015, 6:41 p.m...

foetz wrote:

Trippynet wrote: teal Indigo2s are usually MIPS R4400 processor systems

which makes them the most versatile of all. they can run everything from irix 4 to 6.5.22

Trippynet wrote:

foetz wrote: which makes them the most versatile of all. they can run everything from irix 4 to 6.5.22

True, but if you want to "max out" an Indigo2, an R10000 will provide better performance, and I'd imagine he's more likely to want IRIX 6.5 than an earlier flavour.

You both make very good points. But I definitely want to get a teal Indigo2, regardless of its limitations, only because a teal Indigo2 was the first computer I ever used and I'd like to replicate the same experience I had as a kid. However, since I'm also interested in the much greater performance potential of an R10K system, I'm just going to try and get one of each.

foetz
Moderator
Who joined April 14, 2003, 4:34 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 8, 2015, 8 p.m...

SpaceDebris wrote: I'm just going to try and get one of each.

that's the best option of course

however, an r10k indigo2 is not too useful because it'll still be quite laggy for anything that needs 6.5.x. an octane or higher is the better choice there.
in other words everything less than an r10000 o2 doesn't make much sense with 6.5.x. older, lighter irix versions with older, lighter programs is where an indigo shines.

r-a-c.de

Trippynet
From Scotland, UK
Who joined Aug. 15, 2013, 6:22 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 9, 2015, 4:54 a.m...

Although the biggest advantage of the R10000 Indigo2 (apart from increased performance over the R4400s and the higher RAM limit) is the ability to run the main Nekoware repository. I know you've compiled/provided a sizeable array of packages for earlier systems, and you can also always do a hamei and compile your own too, but if you simply want access to the biggest array of current stuff available with the least hassle, a MIPS4 system with IRIX 6.5.21+ will give the easiest way to run the widest range of stuff.

I've found my Indigo2 is perfectly capable of running IRIX 6.5 at a pleasant enough speed, along with XMMS, Dillo, ScummVM and a few other apps as well. Granted it chugs if you try SeaMonkey, Firefox or something like that, but there's certainly a number of things it'll run at a pleasant enough pace with IRIX 6.5. Like I say, it depends on what you want to do and how realistic your expectations are.

Of course, if he's considering a faster SGI as well at some point, then experimenting with an older release of IRIX on an Indigo2 may be an option, but from personal experience I find that my Indigo2 runs 6.5 and a chunk of Nekoware stuff just fine for me!

Systems in use:
:Fuel:

- Lithium : R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
:Indigo2IMP:

- Nitrogen : R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
Other systems in storage: :O2:

x 2,

x 2

foetz
Moderator
Who joined April 14, 2003, 4:34 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 9, 2015, 1:41 p.m...

Trippynet wrote: Although the biggest advantage of the R10000 Indigo2 (apart from increased performance over the R4400s and the higher RAM limit) is the ability to run the main Nekoware repository. I know you've compiled/provided a sizeable array of packages for earlier systems, and you can also always do a hamei and compile your own too, but if you simply want access to the biggest array of current stuff available with the least hassle, a MIPS4 system with IRIX 6.5.21+ will give the easiest way to run the widest range of stuff.

of course, for nekoware 6.5 is the only choice

from personal experience I find that my Indigo2 runs 6.5 and a chunk of Nekoware stuff just fine for me!

sure, most of the freeware should run fine on an r10000 indigo2 but that's not what i meant. i meant the "fat" commercial software. when i see for example how sluggish the maya gui is even on a fairly well equipped octane and compare that to poweranimator on an indigo2, well, pa wins with flying colors.

of course, as always, it depends on what you wanna do

r-a-c.de

Trippynet
From Scotland, UK
Who joined Aug. 15, 2013, 6:22 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 9, 2015, 2:30 p.m...

foetz wrote: i meant the "fat" commercial software.

Ahh, I see. I can't really comment there as most the software I run on my Indigo2 is open sauce stuff, so I'll take your word for it

Systems in use:
:Fuel:

- Lithium : R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
:Indigo2IMP:

- Nitrogen : R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
Other systems in storage: :O2:

x 2,

x 2

hamei
From over the rainbow
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 9, 2015, 6:33 p.m...

Trippynet wrote: ... you can also always do a hamei and compile your own too, but if you simply want access to the biggest array of current stuff available with the least hassle, a MIPS4 system with IRIX 6.5.21+ will give the easiest way to run the widest range of stuff.

That's not by choice, you know. I don't want to sound negative but let's face facts ... nekoware is in a rather shabby state these days. There's over 160 tardists in /beta that no one has bothered to comment on, there's now issues with programs in current that require libraries that are still in beta, several of the best tardissters have apparently given up due to a total lack of response and gone away .... it's kind of sad but that's life.

"Who will help me plant the wheat ?" asked the little red hen ...

Juliet ! the dice were loaded from the start ...

Trippynet
From Scotland, UK
Who joined Aug. 15, 2013, 6:22 a.m.

Wrote the following at Aug. 10, 2015, 12:52 a.m...

I completely agree. It's a problem, and I'm not sure what the solution would be, given how few people still actively use these things on a regular basis.

Personally, I simply lack the understanding necessary to comment on most of the lower-level libraries. I install them because a later package requires them, but it's difficult to say whether they're working properly or not when you do not know how much (or little) use of them is made by an actual application. I think that's probably one of the reasons so many of them have sat there for so long. Confirming whether or not a ported library fully works is not straightforward.

With an end user app like Dillo, it's much easier for people like myself to test that and confirm that everything seems to be working as it should (or maybe not as the case may be), and for things like this, I have tried to give my feedback where I can.

Of course on the other hand, even a repository of partially beta stuff is better than nothing, given that hardly anything these days comes with IRIX support any more, and given how increasingly difficult it is to compile most modern stuff under IRIX even if you try.

Systems in use:
:Fuel:

- Lithium : R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
:Indigo2IMP:

- Nitrogen : R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
Other systems in storage: :O2:

x 2,

x 2