SGI: Hardware

foetz wrote: i'm not. and if not what's the point in an opensource irix then?

At least to port it to the modern hardware (MIPS at first). Maybe continue to develop it like today's open-source Solaris, like Haiku grown on BeOS bones (it wasn't open sourced, so not a good comparison, but it's anyway a good example of nice continuation of an origin).

guess how many linux users know where xfs came from

These who use it are usually know. SGI had it's own interest in it, and suggested it as a supported configuration for it's SGI ProPack on Linux platform.

TeamBlackFox wrote: While I agree with you on the professional workstation market being a figment of the past, I disagree. GNU/Linux users especially seem to hate the commercial UNIXes especially, the only ones interested in IRIX being open sourced are the BSD and illumos communities, outside of those here.

I think you need to talk to more GNU/Linux users. Especially the older, more seasoned ones. Stay away from the young hotshots, and you'll find your subjective analysis will gain some objectivity.

I personally would like to get some time on an AIX, s390, or even a zOS box. I also want to play with the obscure UNIXen like NEC's SUPER-UX (for their SX-9 systems), Cray's UNICOS, and whatever Honeywell has current. I think they still cook up supercomputers periodically... Throw in hunting down QNX and UnixWare 7.1.4 installs at some point. I'm not saying I'll ever master any of those, but being able to spend a few hours dorking around with them, likely breaking an install? I'd love to.

alexott wrote: Are you sure there is a lot of interesting stuff left buried in closed IRIX, which these communities need for the their operating systems?

From a hardware standpoint on SGI machines, IRIX's source would be very interesting to look at. Especially 6.5.30 and bits on the R14000/R16000 TLB hardware.

foetz wrote: i'm aware of Illumos but whether that's an actual improvement over the original Solaris is very much up for discussion

Considering Oracle has resumed closed development of Solaris again, I'd consider Illumos a fork now, one which will develop entirely independent from Solaris 11+. Oracle promised to periodically release updates to the ZFS code, but, it's Oracle. So I wouldn't be surprised if they halted that after a while as well.

commodorejohn wrote: It is an interesting point that the most likely outcome of making the IRIX source available isn't an IRIX revival, but the appropriation of a handful of components into the Linux ecosystem. The philosophy of the GNU and Linux developer communities overall (and, consequently, a large part of the open-source community as a whole) has always been "embrace, extend, ASSIMILATE!" and I don't doubt that's mostly what we'd see here, if it came to pass. It's only to be expected when you make your software also an ideology.

This isn't something unique to software development. It's a core function of life. Adapt, or die. IRIX has many useful things internally that Linux might be able to emulate (it could never copy due to license differences). The release of the Solaris code and ZFS spurred and influenced the development of btrfs, for example. On the BSD-side, I'd imagine a lot of the hardware bits would get sucked up from IRIX so as to improve support on old SGI gear.

But look beyond software. Successful anything is emulated and/or copied by others. In 2005, Sony ridiculed Nintendo for their Wii Remote, then immediately turned around and added accelerometers into their redesigned "six-axis" controllers (after the "batarang" fiasco). The number of coaches who "mutually agreed to part ways" with their NFL teams jumped after Jim Harbaugh left the San Francisco 49ers using that strategy, usually over minor or trivial things.

IOW, if it works well, it'll get copied. It's not inherently a Linux-only thing to emulate/copy other successful things. It's just that because Linux seems to be everywhere, that Linux seems to do it the most often .

Oh, and throw GNU/Hurd in the list of UNIX-like OSes to try out. I'm certain that'll be able to boot to a basic shell prompt before the heat death of the Universe, so I'll have to try that out as well.

Kumba wrote: I think you need to talk to more GNU/Linux users. Especially the older, more seasoned ones. Stay away from the young hotshots, and you'll find your subjective analysis will gain some objectivity.

I personally would like to get some time on an AIX, s390, or even a zOS box. I also want to play with the obscure UNIXen like NEC's SUPER-UX (for their SX-9 systems), Cray's UNICOS, and whatever Honeywell has current. I think they still cook up supercomputers periodically... Throw in hunting down QNX and UnixWare 7.1.4 installs at some point. I'm not saying I'll ever master any of those, but being able to spend a few hours dorking around with them, likely breaking an install? I'd love to.

Already have met countless GNU/Linux guys and gals - you're by far the friendliest and most pro-social of them. I get insulted because I don't advocate their "free software" agenda it seems - I realistically see that all software must coexist in order to be successful. Many GNU/Linux users of all ages share the anti-proprietary sentiment, and it seems to be growing.

Speaking of AIX - when I get Jigoku-Karasu webfacing, you are free to play with it.

Kumba wrote: This isn't something unique to software development. It's a core function of life. Adapt, or die. IRIX has many useful things internally that Linux might be able to emulate (it could never copy due to license differences). The release of the Solaris code and ZFS spurred and influenced the development of btrfs, for example. On the BSD-side, I'd imagine a lot of the hardware bits would get sucked up from IRIX so as to improve support on old SGI gear.

I'd be the first to start revitalizing IRIX if the source was released. Between illumos, and the BSDs, there's plenty of code to patch any holes left behind, because there are definitely original parts to the IRIX kernel - the pieces that are IRIX-original I imagine would give us all the references we would need to develop "OpenIRIX" or something.

Kumba wrote: Oh, and throw GNU/Hurd in the list of UNIX-like OSes to try out. I'm certain that'll be able to boot to a basic shell prompt before the heat death of the Universe, so I'll have to try that out as well.

Pardon me if I find this funny, but I've used Hurd, Debian GNU/Hurd specifically. Its absolutely nothing special - I'd have more fun trying to jack off a bull.

TeamBlackFox wrote: Already have met countless GNU/Linux guys and gals - you're by far the friendliest and most pro-social of them. I get insulted because I don't advocate their "free software" agenda it seems - I realistically see that all software must coexist in order to be successful. Many GNU/Linux users of all ages share the anti-proprietary sentiment, and it seems to be growing.

Insults are only insults if you let them affect you that way. Everyone's got an opinion, so there's always going to be someone who is insulted. Just a fact of life. Don't let it get to you. If some GPL fanboi starts one up with you, rather than get insulted, play along and troll the guy. Have fun, and maybe look for openings in their arguments and slip a few truths in on them when they least expect it.

TeamBlackFox wrote: I'd be the first to start revitalizing IRIX if the source was released. Between illumos, and the BSDs, there's plenty of code to patch any holes left behind, because there are definitely original parts to the IRIX kernel - the pieces that are IRIX-original I imagine would give us all the references we would need to develop "OpenIRIX" or something.

Is it not possible that SGI/Rackable could open-source the IRIX kernel in a license that would be incompatible with the BSD license (other than the GPL, that is, even though we know that won't happen)?

Personally, I'd love to see NetWare open-sourced. It's such a twisted, yet weird platform. An "OpenNetWare" platform's first objectives would be to disentangle Java from the NW kernel in its entirety. There's just something fundamentally wrong about running Java processes in kernel threads.

TeamBlackFox wrote: Pardon me if I find this funny, but I've used Hurd, Debian GNU/Hurd specifically.

This was the intent. Notice the "heat death of the universe" bit in there.

IRIX isn't going open-source. It's not so much that SGI thinks they're going to get money out of it, but that it would take a whole lot of work to remove all IP licensed from other sources or get their permission to post, and in the end SGI gets nothing out of it.