SGI: Hardware

upgrading ram on sgi indy, indigo2 - Page 2

I didn't find a wiki page for scsi terminators, but since they are such a simple topic, there probably are FAQs written already. Google searches didn't turn up particularly useful info though, so there might be value in a summary.

In principle both ends of a SCSI bus need to be terminated, but there are a few exceptions: when the host controller is permanently connected at one end of the bus, it handles termination at that end. and if there are no devices on a bus, it isn't necessary to terminate it. So even though the Indigo2 manual says to leave a terminator on the external bus (1) when it isn't being used, you don't have to. The Indigo2's internal bus has termination built in and no terminator packs should ever be used.

The Indy is one of the machines where both external and internal terminators need to be used, since the same bus is connected to internal drives and the rear-panel connector. Internal terminators are usually passive, shaped like 50-pin IDC plugs, and usually pass-through, so they can be connected in between the last internal drive and the cable. This is not really ideal because the drive will be on "the wrong side" of the termination, but it worked on 5 MB/s systems. On faster systems (like the Indy) it's better to either let the drive be the terminator (check the drive's manual for how to do this), or to have the drive plugged into the cable a little way from the end, and put the terminator pack on the actual end of the cable.

External terminators are usually (but not always) not pass through, and typically active terminators are distinguished by having an LED light, which passive terminators lack. It's always better to use active termination, because it adapts to different bus lengths and device loads. The Indy should always have an external terminator, when no external devices are used (because the same bus is also for the internal devices). Some external drive boxes have switchable termination, and those could be used instead of a terminator plug if you had one connected.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
Also worth noting that "over-terminating" can be A Bad Thing - personal experience of a blown fuse on the controller card. The easiest way to over-terminate is to leave the last device's own termination enabled (inadvertently) and add a terminator to the end of bus. My usual practice is now to turn all device termination off (including host controller termination) and rely on terminator packs, unless the specific configuration precludes this (e.g. host controller defaults to "termination on" after a NVRAM/CMOS reset, or lack of physical space for a terminator pack).

Some devices unhelpfully seem to label their termination enable/disable jumper in a confusing way (i.e. "on" when they mean "off").
Fuel ; Indigo2 ; RiscPC Kinetic-StrongARM/448MB/RISCOS4.39 or Debian-etch; EspressoPC ViaC3/900MHz/256MB/Debian-testing; RPi B RISCOS5.21 or Raspbian-jessie; A5000/33MHz/FPA11/8MB/RISCOS3.11; A540/25MHz/FPA10/16MB/RISCOS3.11 or RISCiX1.21; R140/35MHz/4MB/RISCOS3.11 or RISCiX1.21
i have'nt opened my 2 sgi machines yet,
so i guess the have internal termination?!.
the small square shaped grey colored termination
thing i have is external, i think!.

So i am not gonna terminate any thing, blow
any fuse!.
The internal SCSI bus in an Indigo2 is of course an 8 bit bus, and therefore has termination for those 8 data lines and the 3 address lines that go along with it. At least some of the drives you linked to are 80 pin SCA, that implies a 16 bit wide data bus, with 4 adress lines. Those extra 8 data lines and the 1 address line are not terminated by the resistors already installed in the Indigo, they just plain aren't connected. Back when I had an Indigo2, the brand new IBM drive I bought refused to work, because it wanted all those floating lines terminated as well. The SCA adapters I have here have an optional little extra board in one corner that's called "9 lines terminator" with a bunch of resistors, a transistor and a few capacitors.
I don't mean to quibble, but what do you mean "address lines"? that is not part of the parallel scsi interface.
edit: on a SCA connector there are 4 ID pins, but these are not bussed, they are part of enclosure services.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
Henrik: Also check out Ian Mapleson's site: http://www.sgidepot.co.uk

Loads of bits for sale there, and both my current main SGI systems came from him.
Systems in use:
:Fuel: - Lithium : R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen : R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
Other systems in storage: :O2: x 2, :Indy: x 2
robespierre wrote: I don't mean to quibble, but what do you mean "address lines"? that is not part of the parallel scsi interface.
edit: on a SCA connector there are 4 ID pins, but these are not bussed, they are part of enclosure services.

You're of course correct, there's no such thing, I just misremembered that part.