SGI: Hardware

Found this in the Jan/Feb 1998 issue of Developer News, part of the launch PR for the R10K/250 CPU and E-series MGRAS gfx:



Just goes to show what companies were willing to pay in order to have, at the time, superior performance, reliability, etc.

Anyone else got some old original list price examples? I mean new pricing, not 2nd-hand units from a reseller.

I remember seeing a quote for a 256MB RAM kit for Challenge/Onyx in around 1995, for 21000 UKP.

Ian.

I have, for whatever reason, a copy of an old invoice from SGI Stockholm dated 12th nov 1999:

• XBOX-DS - Gigachannel expansion cabinet, deskside version: 64.300 SEK
• PCI-SCSIB-Q-DF-1P - Differential Ultra SCSI for Octane: 5.100 SEK
• HU-2P300 - Upgrade to 2x300MHz R12000 for Octane: 105.500 SEK
• CR-2CPU-175/195 - Credit for return of dual R10k-175/195 CPU: -19.200 SEK
• WT5-1P300SE9 - Octane/SE, R12000 300MHz, 256MB, 9GB, monitor: 191.700 SEK
• SC4-AWE-6.5 - IRIX 6.5 Advanced Workstation Enviroment (O2, Octane, Onyx2): 3.400 SEK

These are rated in SEK (Swedish Kronor) so you'd do the conversion from SEK to GBP.
For whatever reason there were no purchase that time, apart from the Diff-SCSI HBA. I think I recall that the department who needed the bits thought it was too expensive...

I found this handy site:

http://www.xe.com/ict/

ramq writes:
> I have, for whatever reason, a copy of an old invoice from SGI Stockholm dated 12th nov 1999:

At that time, 1 UKP = 13.5 SEK, while $1 US = 8.38 SEK.


> [*] HU-2P300 - Upgrade to 2x300MHz R12000 for Octane: 105.500 SEK

(7814 UKP, $12589 US)

Ouch!


> [*] CR-2CPU-175/195 - Credit for return of dual R10k-175/195 CPU: -19.200 SEK

(1422 UKP, $2291 US)

Heh, and to think I gave some away for nothing recently...


> [*] WT5-1P300SE9 - Octane/SE, R12000 300MHz, 256MB, 9GB, monitor: 191.700 SEK

(14200 UKP, $22876 US)

And that was just an SE? Yikes.


> [*] SC4-AWE-6.5 - IRIX 6.5 Advanced Workstation Enviroment (O2, Octane, Onyx2): 3.400 SEK[/list]

(252 UKP, $406 US)

That's strangely cheap. In the UK 6.5 cost 2X more (500 UKP + tax).


> For whatever reason there were no purchase that time, apart from the Diff-SCSI HBA. I think I recall that the
> department who needed the bits thought it was too expensive...

Hard to argue with that. 1999 was about the time x86 CPUs really started to edge ahead. The PIII/700 offered
only slighty lower SPECfp95, but almost 2X better SPECint95 than the R12K/300. SGI did release faster CPUs
of course, but by then the gap was significant even for fp, eg.:

R12K/400: http://www.spec.org/cpu95/results/res20 ... 04235.html
PIII/1GHz: http://www.spec.org/cpu95/results/res20 ... 04136.html

On the other hand, the gfx in the test PC sucks (heh), and the bandwidth in the Octane still offered an edge. Around 1999
I talked to a guy at Chevron/Nigeria, he said their Octane SI/texture systems blew away PCs completely for processing
with their volumetric data (750MB+ minimum typical dataset size, crunched in less than 3 seconds), so presumably the
higher costs of SGIs was still worthwhile. They had an 18-CPU POWER Challenge for processing the larger datasets.

Ian.

It would be fun to know the list price on a 16-proc O3800 were at the time...

ramq wrote: It would be fun to know the list price on a 16-proc O3800 were at the time...

Probably around the GNP of a small Communist state.

What about a fully loaded down Personal IRIS 4D/20 with the video system maxed and 64mb of ram and a 700mb hard disk?

From a copy of a quote from '96.

Upgrade Quad R10000 w/1MB Secondary Cache for CHALLENGE L/XL and ONYX systems
$100,000. (Support $16,200)

Challenge L Quad 250mhz R4400 w/4MB SC, 64mb Memory, 2gb disk
$118,800.

ramq wrote: It would be fun to know the list price on a 16-proc O3800 were at the time...

Not quite enough to retire on, unless you went with 64 CPU's.

ftp://ftp.nekochan.net/pub/irix/Documents/Periodic_Tables/SGIPeriodTabJun2001.pdf

Here are some 1997 Academic/Educational prices in US Dollars - these are likely heavily discounted for the main systems, but add-ons maybe not so much. I don't really know what SGI's discount policy was, however. Interestingly/Unfortunately, the best graphics they have on the Octane is just SI, so an I2 Max Impact is the most expensive configuration listed. An extra R10K processor on the Octane seems like an incredible deal at the price. Like most .edu systems I've seen though, they shipped with very little memory, and unfortunately it doesn't seem like they're often upgraded.

Never ceases to amaze me how much extra RAM costs in original pricing.

Low RAM was a problem I ran into with the SGIs I adminned, both at the university in Preston (18 x R4600PC/133 Indys with 32MB)
and Salford University some years later (12 x R5K/180SC O2s with 128MB). I think resellers did such deals because it enabled them
to sell more seats a typical example of what I meant in other threads about bad PR/sales messing things up. Tiny disks were also a
problem (549MB in the Indys, 2GB in the O2s). In both cases I was eventually able to get *some* systems upgraded, but by then it
was too late. And of course, the Indys were only 8bit (ugh). Students were amazed at how much better a 24bit Indy with R4K/200
and 4GB disk was, ie. able to install all the sw instead of NFS-mounting everything, images looked much nicer, way quicker, etc.

Hmm, some of the prices in that PDF look kinda wierd. How come the R10K/195 I2 Max is only $1K more than the R4K/250 I2 Solid?
The product codes suggest the I2 is a Max aswell.

Oh, and I think the extra R10K in the Octane might be for a dual-175, judging by the product code.

Ian.

It's interesting that you found so many 8-bit systems in production use - I've noticed this trend with used Indy systems I run into as well.

The premium must have been quite extreme on non-academic systems (looks like it was about $1000 more for 24-bit than 8-bit on academic) or SGI's sales reps very bad at demonstrating the 24-bit vs 8-bit - 8-bit is not only ugly but slower in most apps due to dithering.

bri3d wrote: or SGI's sales reps very bad at demonstrating the 24-bit vs 8-bit - 8-bit is not only ugly but slower in most apps due to dithering.

I think it was just a case of selling a larger number of lower spec systems, thus satisfying the academic requirement for the
number of seats, ie. reps didn't want to say, sorry, the cost of *decent* systems would be too high if you wanted 20 of them.

The dithering is a hardware function via the CLUTs, AFAIK it has no impact on speed (check my Inventor results). For 3D
speed on Indy XL systems, the main CPU is much more important.

Ian.

hi here

i have the official SGI france pricing list from 1995....
about 100 pages, so i thinnk cannot scan these now.... moving in a new home (when i'll find it)

ex: a CRIMSON VGXT 64Mb refurbished in 1995 cost you 340.000 fr, about 64600 euro... add 20.6 of VAT...
INDIGO2 IMPACT R4400 250 128Mb.... 430.000 fr about 77400 euro...

price are corrected with the value in euro of the franc during 1995, 0.19 euro per franc

regards

Laurent

mapesdhs wrote: Never ceases to amaze me how much extra RAM costs in original pricing.

I hadn't paid attention - over $20,000 a gigabyte!

mapesdhs wrote: Hmm, some of the prices in that PDF look kinda wierd. How come the R10K/195 I2 Max is only $1K more than the R4K/250 I2 Solid?
The product codes suggest the I2 is a Max aswell.

Oh, and I think the extra R10K in the Octane might be for a dual-175, judging by the product code.

You're right, it looks like there are several misprints. I bet the product codes are right judging by the prices! Makes a lot more sense now. I wonder if you could have held them to it? I didn't even know they made dual 175s. Even with the I2 R4K/250 actually being a Max instead of a Solid, it's interesting that there appears to be less premium for an R10K over an R4K than I would have thought.

dc_v01 wrote:

mapesdhs wrote: Never ceases to amaze me how much extra RAM costs in original pricing.

I hadn't paid attention - over $20,000 a gigabyte!

Pffft. In 1991, the list price for 24MB of RAM for a PowerSeries was 30.200DM, and the exchange rate was 0.61:1 (so $18.422). That's $768.000 per gigabyte.

My 4D/380VGX, 4D/440VGX and Crimson RE each have the maximum 256MB installed ...