Nekonomicon - windows can't see the disk in my alphastation (noob help)

sybrfreq
Old Salt
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 10:12 p.m.
and authored 1647 notes

Wrote the following at Sept. 17, 2009, 11:02 a.m...

OK, so today I have been trying to get my alphastation 600 5/333 running with windows NT4. The NT installer is having a problem seeing the hard drive, it shows up in the 'display hardware configuration' menu from the arc console as:

Code:

scsi(1)disk(1)rdisk(0) (RAW) SGI QUANTUM XP34550WLXY4

When I start the NT installation it goes fine up until the point where it is time to format the disk, it shows me the controller under the list of mass storage devices:

Code:

QLogic PCI SCSI Host Adapter

but there are no disks, the controller is the only thing windows sees, and I'm quite sure I've set the default environment variables in the arc console correctly.

So how do I get windows to see the hard disk?

Also, before anybody tells me to use something other than NT4, I should add that this machine normally runs openbsd fine, just want to try something different is all

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SAQ
Old Salt
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Wrote the following at Sept. 17, 2009, 1:20 p.m...

I remember trying to put NT4 on a 2100 4/266 for interest. Looking back it doesn't seem like it was worth it.

The only question I can think of (assuming that the SCSI card is fully supported by your ARC and NT4) is what was on the drive previously. I seem to remember some MS OSes not liking disks that have certain types of labels already on them. Put it in something, nuke the first few blocks, and try again.

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sybrfreq
Old Salt
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 10:12 p.m.
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Wrote the following at Sept. 17, 2009, 7:09 p.m...

I blame the sca-to-68 pin adapter I was using, as when I put the disk into my PC it couldn't be bothered to notice it in either the bios, windows, or an ubuntu live cd. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with the adapter, I just don't know how to use it

So I took the disk out of my onyx (the only spare non-sca disk I could find) and put it in to my PC and it showed up fine. put it into the alpha and it also showed up fine, in both the ARC firmware and the NT installer.

I've learned this lesson several times over, but once again, improperly configured scsi devices act quite bizzare.

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theinonen
Big Fan
Who joined Feb. 21, 2007, 12:32 p.m.
and authored 184 notes

Wrote the following at Sept. 18, 2009, 2:32 a.m...

SAQ wrote:

I remember trying to put NT4 on a 2100 4/266 for interest. Looking back it doesn't seem like it was worth it.

I had NT4 Server running on my maxed out 2100 5/300, and I must say it worked pretty well. I used it to browse the web with Seamonkey, and remember that it was lightning fast but could crash with some sites.

Only problem is that the AlphaNT source website is not working at the time, so it is pretty difficult to find any programs or updates for it.

neozeed
Journeyman
Who joined Feb. 17, 2010, 10:14 p.m.
and authored 44 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 17, 2010, 10:32 p.m...

Wow, other NT users on the Alpha.... I hope I don't get in trouble for bumping an old thread, but I've manage to collect a few updates for the Alpha NT stuff (and MIPS/PPC as well). Right now I'm keeping my Alpha stuff here:

http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/ ... 4.0-Alpha/

I have a PC164LX running terminal server... and it was a major mission to hunt down a working copy of service pack 5 & IE5...

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sybrfreq
Old Salt
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 10:12 p.m.
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Wrote the following at Feb. 18, 2010, 8:25 a.m...

cool, thanks for the link

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neozeed
Journeyman
Who joined Feb. 17, 2010, 10:14 p.m.
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Wrote the following at Feb. 18, 2010, 2:06 p.m...

Sorry I don't have tooooo much exciting stuff... the big thing (well for me) was the terminal server patch... you'd be amazed and annoyed to realize that just about every copy of it out there is broken.

That being said, me & a friend went 50/50 on an Alphaserver 800.... I'm installing Terminal server onto it now...!

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PymbleSoftware
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Who joined July 15, 2008, 5:48 p.m.
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Wrote the following at Feb. 18, 2010, 3:23 p.m...

neozeed wrote:

Sorry I don't have tooooo much exciting stuff... the big thing (well for me) was the terminal server patch... you'd be amazed and annoyed to realize that just about every copy of it out there is broken.

That being said, me & a friend went 50/50 on an Alphaserver 800.... I'm installing Terminal server onto it now...!

I have an AlphaServer 800 5/550 and WindowsNT would be the last thing I would install on it..
Mine runs Tru64... and possibly OpenVMS soon.

I had to do Visual C++ 5.0 on WindowsNT on Alpha around 1995/1996 and it was just horrible.
Worse was intel emulation under NT on Alpha... It was dog slow... I had a 200 or 300 MHz Alpha and the Pentium of around the same vintage and about 1/2 to 1/3 the clock speed would just cane it. Like 50 times slower.

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neozeed
Journeyman
Who joined Feb. 17, 2010, 10:14 p.m.
and authored 44 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 18, 2010, 3:49 p.m...

PymbleSoftware wrote:

neozeed wrote:

Sorry I don't have tooooo much exciting stuff... the big thing (well for me) was the terminal server patch... you'd be amazed and annoyed to realize that just about every copy of it out there is broken.

That being said, me & a friend went 50/50 on an Alphaserver 800.... I'm installing Terminal server onto it now...!

I have an AlphaServer 800 5/550 and WindowsNT would be the last thing I would install on it..
Mine runs Tru64... and possibly OpenVMS soon.

I had to do Visual C++ 5.0 on WindowsNT on Alpha around 1995/1996 and it was just horrible.
Worse was intel emulation under NT on Alpha... It was dog slow... I had a 200 or 300 MHz Alpha and the Pentium of around the same vintage and about 1/2 to 1/3 the clock speed would just cane it. Like 50 times slower.

I have VC 4 for the Alpha and yeah, it's *TERRIBLE*... Oddly enough it works great on the MIPS. Go figure. But VC6 on the Alpha is when they finally got it right.

Take something simple like unzip, and the C compiler on the NT 3.5 SDK (vc2?) couldn't compile it unless you flagged it /OD (disable optimizations), neither could VC 4.. I'd suspect VC5 was in the same territory, but VC6 works great! Heck even F2C and Dungeon compile great!

Not to mention compared to a Pentium Pro 200 (something comparable for the time) quake1 simply flies on the Alpha..

I know I'm in the minority, but to me True64 just feels like yet another unix... Nothing all *that* exciting.... but I'm sure I'm missing something, I have a media kit for the thing, but no great sales pitch into tru64.

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PymbleSoftware
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Wrote the following at Feb. 18, 2010, 4:07 p.m...

neozeed wrote:

I have VC 4 for the Alpha and yeah, it's *TERRIBLE*... Oddly enough it works great on the MIPS. Go figure. But VC6 on the Alpha is when they finally got it right.

Take something simple like unzip, and the C compiler on the NT 3.5 SDK (vc2?) couldn't compile it unless you flagged it /OD (disable optimizations), neither could VC 4.. I'd suspect VC5 was in the same territory, but VC6 works great! Heck even F2C and Dungeon compile great!

Not to mention compared to a Pentium Pro 200 (something comparable for the time) quake1 simply flies on the Alpha..

I know I'm in the minority, but to me True64 just feels like yet another unix... Nothing all *that* exciting.... but I'm sure I'm missing something, I have a media kit for the thing, but no great sales pitch into tru64.

I did maintenance work on SCSI device drivers in the mid to late 1990s on HP-UX, Tru64, AIX, WindowsNT, and did the Solaris port... Tru64 was a multithreaded kernel and had several interesting aspects to it. WindowsNT was a nightmare and our code base at the time was even worse.

VMS ... interesting.. kinda funky with versioning of files etc...

I really really don't like Windows. I have been programming professionally on MSFT since the early 1980s... I have seen the actual Windows Source code to Server2003. My boss when I was in Japan had access to MSFT repositories and watched over his shoulder and discussed our driver code with him and the MSFT systems that were loading our code and calling release on our driver twice...

I have the source code for 3 no longer sold commercial unix implementations and I can tell you the difference in the code base.. and sheer quality of code. like wow... MSFT code base is sickening.

I enjoy peeling the MS OEM Genuine holographic label/sticker off the sides of cases and installing 733MHz Sam440s and running AmigaOS 4.1.. I really don't like Windows.

I have gotten deep enough into Windows subsystems to develop a deep and genuine dislike for it.

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:Onyx2R:

<->

J5600,
3 x SUN, 2 x Mac, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 2 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1. Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.

neozeed
Journeyman
Who joined Feb. 17, 2010, 10:14 p.m.
and authored 44 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 18, 2010, 4:19 p.m...

PymbleSoftware wrote:

I did maintenance work on SCSI device drivers in the mid to late 1990s on HP-UX, Tru64, AIX, WindowsNT, and did the Solaris port... Tru64 was a multithreaded kernel and had several interesting aspects to it. WindowsNT was a nightmare and our code base at the time was even worse.

VMS ... interesting.. kinda funky with versioning of files etc...

I really really don't like Windows. I have been programming professionally on MSFT since the early 1980s... I have seen the actual Windows Source code to Server2003. My boss when I was in Japan had access to MSFT repositories and watched over his shoulder and discussed our driver code with him and the MSFT systems that were loading our code and calling release on our driver twice...

I have the source code for 3 no longer sold commercial unix implementations and I can tell you the difference in the code base.. and sheer quality of code. like wow... MSFT code base is sickening.

I enjoy peeling the MS OEM Genuine holographic label/sticker off the sides of cases and installing 733MHz Sam440s and running AmigaOS 4.1.. I really don't like Windows.

I have gotten deep enough into Windows subsystems to develop a deep and genuine dislike for it.

I've watched some of their 'best' fly out to try to "fix" DCOM... oh the horrors.. The best they could come up with, eventually became that craptastic load balancer.... There is no denying some of the weird things MS does, or hearing about some of the insane 'fixes' they put into windows when the answer should have been to break bad applications, or demand patches.

I wonder if it would have changed with they were more open in licensing the code, like AT&T..?

But with that said, I have to say that as much as I hated SYSV, OpenSolaris feels really nice!

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SAQ
Old Salt
Who joined July 19, 2006, 8:37 a.m.
and authored 3874 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 21, 2010, 11:46 a.m...

I remember seeing, many years ago, a comparison that someone did between MS's top tech support and a call to the Psychic Hotline regarding a moderately complex DB question. Neither was able to fix the problem, the difference was that the Psychic Hotline admitted that they didn't know what they were doing, whereas MS kept trying to sell them stuff (I think).

Pymble- did you run the original Alpha x86 (MS) emulator or DIGITAL's FX!32? My FX!32 experience is limited (I do have a copy somewhere, but the AS2100 I had NT on died), but it looked like a very strong approach to the problem - writing out pretranslated blocks of code to create a semi-"fat-binary" so after several runs very little of the code needed to be translated "in-flight".

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PymbleSoftware
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Who joined July 15, 2008, 5:48 p.m.
and authored 664 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 21, 2010, 2:19 p.m...

SAQ wrote:

I remember seeing, many years ago, a comparison that someone did between MS's top tech support and a call to the Psychic Hotline regarding a moderately complex DB question. Neither was able to fix the problem, the difference was that the Psychic Hotline admitted that they didn't know what they were doing, whereas MS kept trying to sell them stuff (I think).

I think I remember something like that. Was funny at the time.

SAQ wrote:

Pymble- did you run the original Alpha x86 (MS) emulator or DIGITAL's FX!32? My FX!32 experience is limited (I do have a copy somewhere, but the AS2100 I had NT on died), but it looked like a very strong approach to the problem - writing out pretranslated blocks of code to create a semi-"fat-binary" so after several runs very little of the code needed to be translated "in-flight".

I ran FX!32 at the time and wasn't impressed... Concept was great but my experience with it found it lacking in my opinion...

I have just started getting reacquainted with Tru64... somethings are good..
/etc/securettys as a file to specify which terminals you can log in as root was a good idea.. It is also in OpenBSD..
..and the DEC compiler has that wonderful ---------^ here, that is the part of the line of code I am complaining about in the error messages, not just the line number but position on the line too..

I am still waiting for my VMS hobbyist licenses...

_________________
死の神はりんごだけ食べる

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:Onyx2R:

<->

J5600,
3 x SUN, 2 x Mac, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 2 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1. Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.

SAQ
Old Salt
Who joined July 19, 2006, 8:37 a.m.
and authored 3874 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 21, 2010, 4:56 p.m...

PymbleSoftware wrote:

I have just started getting reacquainted with Tru64... somethings are good..
/etc/securettys as a file to specify which terminals you can log in as root was a good idea.. It is also in OpenBSD..
..and the DEC compiler has that wonderful ---------^ here, that is the part of the line of code I am complaining about in the error messages, not just the line number but position on the line too..

I am still waiting for my VMS hobbyist licenses...

Tru64 is an interesting breed. Most Unices have some parts that are advanced and some that are a bit ... anachronistic, but Tru64 seems to have more of the extremes. TruClusters at one end and the only current UNIX that still uses COFF on the other end (there are other examples of both - fortunately AdvFS has been stable for the last few releases).

Your VMS licenses should come through within a day of applying, or at least they do for DECUS/Encompass members. The disks take somewhat longer. Enjoy - VMS is frustrating at first, but then you learn to like bashing your head against it

It's very different from UNIX, and unfortunately while I've seen about 2-3 different "UNIX for OpenVMS users" guides I've seen zero for going the other way.
BTW - You might as well start looking for a second machine to start a VMScluster with.

_________________
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

:Indigo:

PymbleSoftware
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Who joined July 15, 2008, 5:48 p.m.
and authored 664 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 21, 2010, 5:15 p.m...

SAQ wrote:

PymbleSoftware wrote:

I have just started getting reacquainted with Tru64... somethings are good..
/etc/securettys as a file to specify which terminals you can log in as root was a good idea.. It is also in OpenBSD..
..and the DEC compiler has that wonderful ---------^ here, that is the part of the line of code I am complaining about in the error messages, not just the line number but position on the line too..

I am still waiting for my VMS hobbyist licenses...

Tru64 is an interesting breed. Most Unices have some parts that are advanced and some that are a bit ... anachronistic, but Tru64 seems to have more of the extremes. TruClusters at one end and the only current UNIX that still uses COFF on the other end (there are other examples of both - fortunately AdvFS has been stable for the last few releases).

Your VMS licenses should come through within a day of applying, or at least they do for DECUS/Encompass members. The disks take somewhat longer. Enjoy - VMS is frustrating at first , but then you learn to like bashing your head against it

It's very different from UNIX, and unfortunately while I've seen about 2-3 different "UNIX for OpenVMS users" guides I've seen zero for going the other way.
BTW - You might as well start looking for a second machine to start a VMScluster with.

ADVFS is now open sourced...
http://advfs.sourceforge.net/

I don't find VMS frustrating... I did a diploma in the 1980s went into the workforce and then went to university after a few years in the industry... In the workplace, in the late 1980s, I used VMS on a VAX 11/780 ... we had some ongoing contract on something written in DIBOL at the time.. Went I got to university we did VAX assembler on VMS and all the MS-DOS and UNIX students really struggled and I said... "I remember this". Recently I used VAXmans VMS box (pfafner) and wrote "hello, world" in VAX assembler... reliving my uni days..

( I also did a little TSX-11 and RT-11 on the PDP 11/23 ... Queensland rail were still using PDPs in the late 1980s )

I am not sure about starting a VMScluster... I have another Tru64 box.. its an AlphaServer 800 5/550 running Tru64 4.0d.. I could put VMS on both and I could set up a VMScluster but I have other things I am interested in as well and a limited amount of time...

_________________
死の神はりんごだけ食べる

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:Onyx2R:

<->

J5600,
3 x SUN, 2 x Mac, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 2 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1. Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.

porter
Old Salt
Who joined Nov. 1, 2006, 11:37 p.m.
and authored 2619 notes

Wrote the following at Feb. 21, 2010, 7:26 p.m...

Quote:

... the only current UNIX that still uses COFF

Doesn't AIX?

HP/DEC/Compaq

windows can't see the disk in my alphastation (noob help)