SGI: Video

I think a new thread is justified here

Subject: WTB: Octane2 2x600Mhz (or 2x400Mhz) R14K with V12 Pro

recondas wrote:

jan-jaap wrote: One of those plus a suitable monitor just might make a decent replacement for a bulky/expensive (HD)SDI monitor.

Nice find - compared to the name-brand-high-priced-spread they are indeed very affordable.

Well, I ordered one (not that one but another, with embedded audio support). I guess it's going to take three weeks to deliver and will arrive in a bubble wrap envelope Still, I'm completely in the dark about many aspects of the DMedia puzzle.

I mean, I've got the SGIs covered:
* Onyx2 with HD-GVO (DG5-TVO) which does 720p or 1080i (amongst others), DM2 (1080p), VBOB w./ DM5 (I hope it matches, borrowed from Octane2). This should give me HD-SDI video in/out at 1080p and HD-SDI GVO at 1080i. Oh, and I still have a DIVO/DVC card somewhere.
* Tezro with V12+DCD and DM3, VBOB (same as the one from Octane2). This should give me HD-SDI video in/out *and * GVO at 1080p (?? not sure about capabilities of DCD, DM5 combo).
* Octane2 with V12+DCD and DM2 for good measure.
* Enough FC interfaces in the systems and disk arrays to provide the required I/O bandwidth.

Now I want to *do* something with them Get some sort of video monitoring, and feed it it video data. This will have to use the SDI and HD-SDI BNC's from the DMedia gear. Let's see what I have already:
* a HD-TV with HDMI inputs (too far away and not portable)
* a mini-DV consumer cam, SD resolution, can play *and* record via 1394, s-video and composite.

Oh, something else: looking at the SDI doc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_digital_interface I need 3G SDI to support 1080p (@50 or 60Hz). The el cheapo converters do that, but the 3G spec is from 2006 so the SGI gear doesn't. It says it conforms to SMPTE-292M (VBOB manual). That spec goes up to 1080i, VBOB claims 1080p ?? While there are two sets of HD-SDI BNC's for each link, I don't think it's dual link HD-SDI (SMPTE 372M). Could it be 1080p@24fps ?? Confusing

I currently don't own any 1080p or 1920x1200 capable displays, and want to resolve this before choosing one. I can do SDI <-> HDMI format conversion but resolution and refresh rate issues remain. PC display capable of PAL/NTSC or 1080i resolution? 24fps isn't uncommon in TVs, but monitors? The Dell 2407WFP I have at work can do it via analog component in, but monitors supporting that on digital inputs? No clue ...

Or maybe I should go for a small HDMI equipped TV screen rather than a computer monitor.

I'm tempted to simply connect the Onyx2 and Tezro VBOBs and make one capture the other (as a proof of concept). Or source a simple SDI-composite converter and attach to the mini-DV cam.

And I haven't even started with the software side of things. Well, I still have the original Tezro hard disk with a Smoke install. Smoke is supposed to do HD-I/O.

Any hints to get me started? Any idea if ShotMaker works with DM2 and/or TVO? Documentation says it was developed for the older XIO parallel HD I/O board (XT-HD?).

I can spend some money on it but cannot justify the megabucks pro equipment for my hobbyist projects.

One thing to be aware of when selecting SDI converters is that there are several types of data stream that can be carried on 259M SDI. A "SDI-composite converter" might be for extracting composite digital (D2) video from 10-bit serial, which is useless unless your source is a D2 or D3.
For example, this converter from AJA outputs component analog only when the source is component SDI, and composite PAL/NTSC only when the source is composite SDI.

The lack of response to this thread would seem to indicate a serious lack of SGI video gear knowledge amongst our membership.

As soon as I get the gumption to either figure out what's wrong with my DCD or get a new one, I intend to start filling that gap...

Consumer video toys went all HD and kept only HDMI output. How to down-convert their HDMI output to 259M SDI ? There is the ADVC G2 converter, but it is quite expensive for a hobbyist.
Like jan-jaap, I want to do something with my S{G,D}I hardware, but only in SD with the Onyx2/DIVO/GVO and composite/YC <-> SDI converters so DIVO can capture from an old digital camera with PAL output (make sure it does not auto power off after a few minutes when its power comes from the DC jack), and the GVO is displayed on an old TV.

SDI inputs won't be found on gear in the consumer channel, period.
Some video players do use it internally and can be modified to output SDI. (generally by parallel to serial conversion)
you should be able to find a reasonable deal on broadcast gear that's coming off lease, like the Barco LC40 or the Sony LMD which both have HD-SDI input options.

jan-jaap wrote: Well, I ordered one (not that one but another, with embedded audio support).

From what I saw it appears to be one I just so happen to have, too, which I once ordered out of mere curiosity (mostly to gauge the quality). I didn't have much luck with these cheap contraptions, but maybe it will work out better or simply be good enough for you.

* Onyx2 with HD-GVO (DG5-TVO) which does 720p or 1080i (amongst others), DM2 (1080p), VBOB w./ DM5 (I hope it matches, borrowed from Octane2). This should give me HD-SDI video in/out at 1080p and HD-SDI GVO at 1080i. Oh, and I still have a DIVO/DVC card somewhere.
* Tezro with V12+DCD and DM3, VBOB (same as the one from Octane2). This should give me HD-SDI video in/out *and * GVO at 1080p (?? not sure about capabilities of DCD, DM5 combo).

Strange, the Tezro and Octane2 VBOBs seemed to differ in some manuals and pictures I've seen. (But I assume that both variants can be interchangeably used...?)

* Enough FC interfaces in the systems and disk arrays to provide the required I/O bandwidth.

Which is? The bandwidth requirements for 1080p50/60 HD (especially at 10-bit and above), particularly without proxy workflow in typical compositing and editing suites, can be rather hefty. So hopefully you have multiple FC enclosures, 2-Gbit at least or 4-Gbit even, or perhaps even an array of S-ATA SSDs if you have big plans...

Now I want to *do* something with them Get some sort of video monitoring, and feed it it video data. This will have to use the SDI and HD-SDI BNC's from the DMedia gear. Let's see what I have already:
* a HD-TV with HDMI inputs (too far away and not portable)
* a mini-DV consumer cam, SD resolution, can play *and* record via 1394, s-video and composite.

You got all those SDI video options, VBOB and SDI/BNC (75 Ω?) cables and such, but only have the above to work with...? Seems a bit like a waste to me.

Oh, something else: looking at the SDI doc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_digital_interface I need 3G SDI to support 1080p (@50 or 60Hz). The el cheapo converters do that, but the 3G spec is from 2006 so the SGI gear doesn't. It says it conforms to SMPTE-292M (VBOB manual). That spec goes up to 1080i, VBOB claims 1080p ??

The DM5 definitely doesn't do 1080p (in my Tezro setup at the time), as far as I remember, but the DM3 (and I think DM2, for that matter, too) should be able to. For that, typically VTRs and other equipment is involved (you seem to be mostly thinking of DM5-based uses).

In fact, you can't (or I couldn't, and I tried to) even produce the video formats to output to 1080p (due to, I believe, mainly the VBOB's limitations) and you can more or less conclude this from what's documented in the DM2/3, VBOB and some of the manuals of well-known compositing and editing suites.

While there are two sets of HD-SDI BNC's for each link, I don't think it's dual link HD-SDI (SMPTE 372M).

Dual-link is typically (if not exclusively) used for film setups, e.g. 2K film HSDL, as far as I'm aware.

Could it be 1080p@24fps ?? Confusing

No, but whether your monitor supports it is rather doubtful and very unlikely. But, I'm not even sure about if it can do that and you may need to bring down your ‘high-res’ (e.g. VPro) monitor resolution down, in progressive scan (again, due to the VBOB limitations). Alas, I never dealt much with 48 Hz/24 fps.

I can do SDI <-> HDMI format conversion but resolution and refresh rate issues remain. PC display capable of PAL/NTSC or 1080i resolution?

If any PC display would be, it would not merely be a PC display but also a (makeshift) 8-bit broadcast monitor... Alas, no manufacturer probably has an interest in making that, they'd rather protect their professional product lineup and therefore it's very unlikely. Smaller TVs, however, would be a much safer bet. But would that be worth it? The whole idea people use SDI is for the better definition and picture quality, 10-bit and 12-bit per color and so forth. Thus, generally using anything other than that is almost purpose-defying.

Another option would be to consider an HDMI scaler. That's generally a good idea, since those cheaper SDI conversion gadgets on eBay don't handle things like preserving aspect ratios and such either. But, again, this probably depends on how serious you're about this all.

24fps isn't uncommon in TVs, but monitors?

That depends, but it's mostly a thing from the film world and which the film distributing companies been trying to push as an overall ‘mastering standard’. I'm not sure how common or uncommon it is in TVs, but it's very uncommon in most consumer (and in particular non-TV) LCD screens.

I'm tempted to simply connect the Onyx2 and Tezro VBOBs and make one capture the other (as a proof of concept). Or source a simple SDI-composite converter and attach to the mini-DV cam.

That would work, I guess. (Especially if you're not doing anything serious.)

And I haven't even started with the software side of things. Well, I still have the original Tezro hard disk with a Smoke install. Smoke is supposed to do HD-I/O.

Which version of Smoke?

Any hints to get me started? Any idea if ShotMaker works with DM2 and/or TVO? Documentation says it was developed for the older XIO parallel HD I/O board (XT-HD?).

Why would you bother with that if you have Smoke...?

I can spend some money on it but cannot justify the megabucks pro equipment for my hobbyist projects.

Then I wouldn't bother with it, this sort of equipment is costly and it's probably not worth it for you.

silicium wrote: Consumer video toys went all HD and kept only HDMI output. How to down-convert their HDMI output to 259M SDI ?

AJA, but even more budget brands like Delock, make HDMI<=>SDI adapters. I have one of Delock, capable of carrying embedded audio channels and even deep color (thus beyond 8-bit), i.e. 10-bit per color, resulting in over a billion colors, and up to 12-bit per color, resulting in 68 billion colors.

There is the ADVC G2 converter, but it is quite expensive for a hobbyist.

SDI has never really been something for hobbyists, though. The greatest benefit of SDI is to be able to link up with broadcast and film industry standard equipment, but mostly for the aforementioned ability to deal with deep color and this is then of particular use to those involved in color grading and finishing.

Like jan-jaap, I want to do something with my S{G,D}I hardware, but only in SD with the Onyx2/DIVO/GVO and composite/YC <-> SDI converters so DIVO can capture from an old digital camera with PAL output (make sure it does not auto power off after a few minutes when its power comes from the DC jack), and the GVO is displayed on an old TV.

AJA, Miranda, et al. made some AD/DA adapters, some more affordable (second-hand) than others. The SD-SDI ones used shouldn't be too expensive nowadays (if you looked on auction sites). I have one of Miranda of those and it works fine (apart from the power cable feeling brittle, I may need to fix that).

Since I got my super duper Octane, I've been purchasing some right weird stuff for converting HD/SD etc.

So far, I have managed to get the output from a movie playing on a PS3 @ 1080p through my Dmedia onto a TV and in SMOKE. That though was a fluke, and I haven't yet managed to recreate it.

From the HDMI (from PS3) I have a converter to SD (3G) which went to the DMEDIA (the PS3 was streaming from Seervio - but that's irrelevant). From there it came out the DMEDIA through a SD - HDMI convertor to a TV and also displayed on the Octane.

I've also managed SD from VHS (through a VTR that the Tape mechanism broke) and displayed on a small CTR with a GENLOCK generator.

I've also managed out put through an SD-RGB convertor etc..

I haven't as yet got this documented in a howto and it's pain to recreate, things keep hanging or I'm stuck in a loop and can't get out a menu.

I've also tried, AJA stuff controlled by the mac, but going through the DMEDIA.

It's all good fun, and I will make a video one day, but it's a massive learning curve for me at the moment, plus I had to put it all in the loft for Christmas as the pile of boxes was beginning to reach the conservatory roof and the PSU blew on the Octane a few weeks back.