Everything Else

All my engineering friends keep talking about it, but I don't really get it, so I thought I'd ask you guys that are actually involved with product design and engineering.

It seems like a scam to create something that has some plausible but undeliverable value in order to cheat investors out of their money and line the pockets of CEOs and friends while doing so.

I mean as long as you get paid, why care about actually creating anything, right? It's not like you can get sued for breach of contract by a bunch of crowdfunders...

surrealdeal wrote: It seems like a scam to create something that has some plausible but undeliverable value in order to cheat investors out of their money and line the pockets of CEOs and friends while doing so.

I think you got it. In the past a statup was a starting business, but for today your description is much better.

kickstarter != startup company .

I worked for a couple of startups and if you think working at a startup is matter of taking it easy while you burn though someone else's money you've got it all wrong. Those who work for a startup usually work very long hours for a reduced salary (if any) -- the reward is that you will be (part) owner of a successful company if things work out, the risk is of course that you will be left with nothing if the startup doesn't take off.

If you think VCs are clueless idiots looking to give free money to any idiot, think again. They are sharks. Those who provide seed capital for startup companies will demand shares in the company and you really want to create income *fast* because every funding round will dilute your own shares.

Things were a little different in the late nineties during the dot-com bubble. Back then you could be part of a startup *and* be treated like a rockstar, nice hotels, limos etc. No kidding, been there, done that There's a reason that bubble didn't last...

Things maybe different for a kickstarter -- I'm not an expert on those.

I once worked my ass off for a "startup" that was all about taking investors' money while NOT paying their employees (AKA ME). Now I work for a real company that while is younger than the "startup", is actually profitable and pays their employees. And taxes. And rent. And bills. (Yes, it's tons of fun working in the dark while the owner of the company tries to negotiate paying the electric bill with millions of worthless shares of stock... and having to always be looking for new suppliers because they never pay their invoices).

I worked there from March-December 2013, and only last April (2015) have I recovered from the debt that hellhole put me into. Because if they don't pay you, you can't pay your rent, etc. It's a slippery slope, and in most states you will have ZERO recourse. If you are in a salaried position or receive ANY benefits, in the state of Ohio at least, chances are pretty good your employer technically doesn't have to pay you

Stay away from any place that is publicly traded (or has more than 1 or 2 owners/investors) but doesn't make a profit or claims to be "pre-revenue". I would recommend staying away from any place that is pre-revenue unless you don't need a regular paycheck. Or any paycheck.

I can't stay away from the fact that when I had to take my wife to the ER, my insurance was denied because even though the employer was deducting the insurance from the check (I did get one every now and then...) they of course weren't paying BCBS the premium. However, because they had only given me one check in the last 90 days, I qualified for low income assistance

Your employer can fuck with you in any number of ways. The issue with this place was, they all went to the same church (catholic), so long as they repented on Sunday I reckon what they did to their employees was OK.

Full disclosure, because it's not a story unless you name-names,
The old place I used to work at (they are still in business, of course!) http://ampelectricvehicles.com
Perhaps more interesting, keep in mind they have never delivered a single commercial vehicle to a customer, http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AMPD
You cannot divide by 0 which is why P/E is unavailable

jan-jaap wrote: ... if you think working at a startup is matter of taking it easy while you burn though someone else's money you've got it all wrong. Those who work for a startup usually work very long hours for a reduced salary (if any) -- the reward is that you will be (part) owner of a successful company if things work out, the risk is of course that you will be left with nothing if the startup doesn't take off.

That is exactly how all middle class small businesses were thirty years ago ... except without the vampire venture capitalists sucking the company's blood once you got going.

It's time to sharpen up the guillotines. Seriously. We don't need the fucking worthless finance "industry". They are nothing but vile blood-sucking thieves. They are a blight upon the Universe, a cancer upon the organism. It's time for chemotherapy ... with rat poison.

These notes are really great.
http://blakemasters.com/peter-thiels-cs183-startup

robespierre wrote: These notes are really great.
http://blakemasters.com/peter-thiels-cs183-startup

Robes, you are evil. May I suggest Matt Taibbi, Griftopia as an antidote to this swill ?

I made it a bit further than 3 paragraphs (about 6, maybe. Hilarious stuff, if you have a sense of humor and a strong constitution), but... pretty sure I'm not the intended target of this obvious troll. Putting up with bullshit like that is part of why I don't want to finish my MS.

It was supposed to be a business that explores a new way of creating revenue.
Then it became 90s.
By the time I started Ekunia as a teenager (still unprofitable but then again I only worked weekends and promised to never actually pay anyone whenever they wanted to be my employee), it was a thing where some guys wanted to get in on some fad like Clojure or your favorite PHP framework.
Now it seems that startups are a form of subsidiary controlled by powerful VCs that have become skilled enough at negotiation to actually control the companies in their investment portfolios. Wouldn't recommend the VC route.
Kickstarter started as a thing I would have trusted (although it had too much red tape for my startup) until people began seemingly throwing money at it in ways to make it look less credible. It seems like a bunch of idiots don't know how to spend their money properly, and a bunch of dumb startup teams get overconfident because a lot of McDonald's employees with $15 minimum wage in Seattle will throw money at you.