Everything Else

vegetarianism and veganism

I would like to ask if any people here are either vegetarians or vegans? Me personally I'm vegetarian for more than half a year and now I'm "upgrading" to veganism. I simply don't believe that killing animals is right, if you think I'm wrong, check www.meat.org to the end, and we can discuss it.
To the point: I'm really bad cook (imagine the it nerd at his best), so I would like to ask, if anyone can share some good & simple recipes for vegan diet.
I know there are tons of them on web, but I hoped to find some which people like in particular and which are easy to be prepared even by me.

Many thanks in advance.
:Indigo2IMP: :Octane: This post was typed using dvorak keyboard layout - http://www.dvzine.org
toxygen wrote: I simply don't believe that killing animals is right


Biologically we are omnivores, we have brains and bodies evolved to live on African plains with scarce resources. We crave things that were rare in that environment. We do eat more meat, fats and sugars than we need because of those cravings.

However one of the quickest ways to get sick is to not eat a balanced diet for idiological reasons. Feed the body what it requires to function. We are part of nature and the food chain, not separate from it.
Land of the Long White Cloud and no Software Patents.
porter wrote: Feed the body what it requires to function.


Very true.

As a vegatarian for more than five years, I don't see what that has to do with eating meat, though?
noisetonepause wrote: I don't see what that has to do with eating meat, though?


You can only eat what is available. Just because you have access to some foodstuffs today does not mean you will tomorrow.
Land of the Long White Cloud and no Software Patents.
well, i personally think, if gorilla, whose DNA is 97%–98% identical to that of a human link can enjoy full health only on herbal diet, I can do as well. And I don't feel like I'm first in the world to find this out.

nevermind this windows-linux discussion (which leads precisely to nowhere).
any recipes? ;)
:Indigo2IMP: :Octane: This post was typed using dvorak keyboard layout - http://www.dvzine.org
No meat? And give up the benefit of being at the top of the food chain? :)
QuicksilverG4 wrote: No meat? And give up the benefit of being at the top of the food chain? :)


*DING!*

Humans evolved to eat both meat and veggies. Not eating a balanced diet will most likely lead to questionable health, maybe not in 5 years but perhaps 20.

What about the vegetarians that eat fish, are fish not animals?

We eat beef, chicken, fish, because they taste good, if we were not supposed to eat it it would taste bad.
You eat Cadillacs; Lincolns too... Mercurys and Subarus.
Toxoplasma gondii infects over half the world's population. Each of Toxoplasma's victims carries thousands of the parasites, many residing in the brain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/scien ... ref=slogin

half of the world's human population is infected with Toxoplasma, a parasite shown to alter the brain function of rats, inducing them into behavior that benefits the parasite but is suicidal for the rat. So what affect does it have on humans? Article comes complete with Heinlein 'Puppet Masters' reference


Toxoplasmosis is considered to be the third leading cause of death attributed to foodborne illness in the United States. More that 60 million men, women, and children in the U.S. carry the Toxoplasma parasite

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/to ... -sex-ratio

QuicksilverG4 wrote: No meat? And give up the benefit of being at the top of the food chain? :)

i think i will play this price gladly. half of the human population is infected by the parasite mainly due to meat consumption. thanks, no.

if eating meat is "normal", i don't want to be "normal".
:Indigo2IMP: :Octane: This post was typed using dvorak keyboard layout - http://www.dvzine.org
sybrfreq wrote:
*DING!*

Humans evolved to eat both meat and veggies.

that's very true. but people used to be pure herbivores for 50 million years. just after then they adapted to meat. they started eating it, their digestive system adapted (bacteria in stomach to process meat). however, their outer preferences did not alter - you do not have teeth, body, or general digestive system adapted to eating meat.
at some point, hunting, processing meat on fire and eating, meant a lot to human kind - they could populate areas, which they couldn't before because of insufficiency of food. these were times, when meat was essential for their lives.

but now, we are living in different times, meat is not an necessity anymore.

sybrfreq wrote: Not eating a balanced diet will most likely lead to questionable health, maybe not in 5 years but perhaps 20.


very true. but what do you know about balanced diet? does it imply eating meat? i don't think so. many experts, better than me or you, think it does not.
as i'm not educated in this area very much, i would rather not oppose you or make any statements.


sybrfreq wrote: What about the vegetarians that eat fish, are fish not animals?


they are. i do not eat them. only because we do not hear them screaming while they are tortured, it does not mean they do not suffer.

sybrfreq wrote: We eat beef, chicken, fish, because they taste good, if we were not supposed to eat it it would taste bad.


carnivores like the smell and the taste of decayed meat. do you? do you like eating carrions?
or better said, do you like eating raw flesh?

in case you have spare minute or two, here is funny video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq4UF9uqXFo
:Indigo2IMP: :Octane: This post was typed using dvorak keyboard layout - http://www.dvzine.org
sybrfreq wrote: We eat beef, chicken, fish, because they taste good, if we were not supposed to eat it it would taste bad.


You are missing the scarcity factor. Your body craves things that you need and are naturally in short supply, it makes you get up off you arse and get them, but when they are in abundence, the modern brain/body combination is confused and you have to deliberately moderate their intake. Hence why we have the modern problem of obesity.
Land of the Long White Cloud and no Software Patents.
toxygen wrote: that's very true. but people used to be pure herbivores for 50 million years. just after then they adapted to meat. they started eating it, their digestive system adapted (bacteria in stomach to process meat). however, their outer preferences did not alter - you do not have teeth, body, or general digestive system adapted to eating meat.
at some point, hunting, processing meat on fire and eating, meant a lot to human kind - they could populate areas, which they couldn't before because of insufficiency of food. these were times, when meat was essential for their lives.

but now, we are living in different times, meat is not an necessity anymore.

I would say, that if you must go out of your way to avoid meat and ask online for recipes, then I would say that perhaps it is not a necessity, but it is a convenience.

toxygen wrote: but what do you know about balanced diet? does it imply eating meat? i don't think so. many experts, better than me or you, think it does not.
as i'm not educated in this area very much, i would rather not oppose you or make any statements.

I am no health professional, but government agencies that spend millions of dollars on research like the american fda and usda recommend eating meat.
toxygen wrote: they are. i do not eat them. only because we do not hear them screaming while they are tortured, it does not mean they do not suffer.

well then what type of vegetarian eats fish but not eggs and things like that? I know a girl who will not eat eggs or dairy products but eats seafood. Maybe it's a religious thing.
toxygen wrote: carnivores like the smell and the taste of decayed meat. do you? do you like eating carrions?
or better said, do you like eating raw flesh?

While I do not enjoy eating raw meat, I do enjoy a nice grilled steak or maybe stuffed salmon on occasion. Properly prepared it does not require special teeth or enzymes in the stomach to dissolve harmful bacteria.


The reason why we crave sugary foods is because of the energy associated with the sweetness. Back in the day, high-sugar things like berries and fruits tasted good because they provided a large amount of energy. now you can just go down and get a chocolate bar because sweets are not scarce but you still crave them because they still taste good. So in this day and age you have to actively monitor what you eat and not just eat whatever your subconscious tells you.

I am not going to debate the health benefits of eating an all-veggie diet further because I am no nutrition professional. It seems like a sound idea in theory and several people swear by it, but to just say you are not going to eat animals because of the politics seems a little bit silly to me.
You eat Cadillacs; Lincolns too... Mercurys and Subarus.
Ah, I love it when people with no real knowledge of the subject (e.g. diseases of humans / animals, etc.) find something on the Web and start quoting it to justify whatever their current beliefs may be.

e.g. Toxoplasmosis. Yes, a lot of people have it and many other parasites. Parasites are successful precisely because they rarely cause their host real problems (provided they are reasonably healthy).
Parasites do not come just in meat.

Another couple of scenarios for contracting Toxoplasmosis:

1. You Grow your own vegetables because it is healthier
2. A cat infected with Toxoplasmosis goes bye and takes a crap
3. You don't wash your vegetables too much because hey, they're organic
4. You eat the vegetables -> hello, you're infected

1. You have a cat
2. One day it contracts Toxoplasmosis (it ate something that had it)
3. You clean its litter tray but forget to properly wash your hands.
4. You grab a snack -> hello you're infected

Conclusion. To be safe from this particular disease:
1. Wash your vegetables in bleach :D
2. Shoot cats on site. :twisted:
3. Don't eat undercooked meat

The first scenario I mention is of course fairly far fetched. The second one actually isn't although by far the most common way to get this particular parasite infection is from undercooked meat.
After all I don't want anyone going out there to shoot cats. I make some of my living by treating animals (I have a Veterinary degree).
I have also seen first hand how animals are slaughtered for food. It isn't pretty, but these days there are laws that in most cases ensure that it is done quickly.
Vegetarianism and even more so veganism by choice seems to be a lot more prevalent in affluent heavily urbanised societies where people find it hard to reconcile the food they buy in supermarkets (all wrapped nicely) with the reality of how it got there. That leads to the guilt when they think that the cute pig/chicken/cow they usually see only on TV is one day likely to end up as a slab of meat...

Anyway, enough of a rant for one day
toxygen wrote: you do not have teeth, body, or general digestive system adapted to eating meat.


Eh? We have canine teeth.
Land of the Long White Cloud and no Software Patents.
porter wrote:
toxygen wrote: you do not have teeth, body, or general digestive system adapted to eating meat.


Eh? We have canine teeth.

and what does canine teeth in human have in common with eating meat?

pssht, i give you hint: gorillas have canine teeth too, and they are herbivores.
:Indigo2IMP: :Octane: This post was typed using dvorak keyboard layout - http://www.dvzine.org
nvukovlj wrote: Ah, I love it when people with no real knowledge of the subject (e.g. diseases of humans / animals, etc.) find something on the Web and start quoting it to justify whatever their current beliefs may be.

e.g. Toxoplasmosis. Yes, a lot of people have it and many other parasites. Parasites are successful precisely because they rarely cause their host real problems (provided they are reasonably healthy).
Parasites do not come just in meat.

Another couple of scenarios for contracting Toxoplasmosis:

1. You Grow your own vegetables because it is healthier
2. A cat infected with Toxoplasmosis goes bye and takes a crap
3. You don't wash your vegetables too much because hey, they're organic
4. You eat the vegetables -> hello, you're infected

1. You have a cat
2. One day it contracts Toxoplasmosis (it ate something that had it)
3. You clean its litter tray but forget to properly wash your hands.
4. You grab a snack -> hello you're infected

Conclusion. To be safe from this particular disease:
1. Wash your vegetables in bleach :D
2. Shoot cats on site. :twisted:
3. Don't eat undercooked meat

The first scenario I mention is of course fairly far fetched. The second one actually isn't although by far the most common way to get this particular parasite infection is from undercooked meat.
After all I don't want anyone going out there to shoot cats. I make some of my living by treating animals (I have a Veterinary degree).
I have also seen first hand how animals are slaughtered for food. It isn't pretty, but these days there are laws that in most cases ensure that it is done quickly.
Vegetarianism and even more so veganism by choice seems to be a lot more prevalent in affluent heavily urbanised societies where people find it hard to reconcile the food they buy in supermarkets (all wrapped nicely) with the reality of how it got there. That leads to the guilt when they think that the cute pig/chicken/cow they usually see only on TV is one day likely to end up as a slab of meat...

Anyway, enough of a rant for one day


first, i would like to make clear that i didn't start this thread to found a flame.
second, so far i haven't seen even one recipe, and that was all i was asking for

ok, you are right with the facts about toxoplasmosis. i exaggeretad, but i only wanted to make my point clear. yet, i don't consider having a parasite (even not causing any known harm to you) in your body is a good thing.

hopefully last quote
It is estimated that between 30% and 65% of all people worldwide are infected with Toxoplasmosis. However, there is large variation countries: in France, for example, around 88% of the population are carriers, probably due to a high consumption of raw and lightly cooked meat.


you are very right with the city thing. but that's not my case. i'm not from heavily urbanised area (i live in slovakia, for god's sake). i didn't like the meat since my early childhood. only meat i could eat was rabbit and chicken, all other food was just gross for me.
but you made a good point :idea:
:Indigo2IMP: :Octane: This post was typed using dvorak keyboard layout - http://www.dvzine.org