Miscellaneous Operating Systems/Hardware

X11 Xterm, suggestion?

hi guys
I have an old X11 Xterm by Tektronix (model XP217 ), it's good, but …
  • pseudo colors
  • 10Mbit/sec lan
  • no ssh, only telnet

I'd like to have something faster (100Mbit/sec), ssh, and with more colors: suggestions?
bye.
HP Envizex might fit those parameters. The days of the X terminal are long ago unfortunately...
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
I guess because today it's cheaper to have a second hand laptop, and force linux to work like an X11 server
it's good, but … I do not like to have linux everywhere

currently I am using a GEODE by AMD, it's a tiny board /x86, linux runs good (gentoo/586, I emerge X11 and fluxbox-WM)
it's so small that it can be hidden inside a SonyPlaystation/One (a friend wanted to hide, to have a PSX emulator)

but I prefer an hw X11 Xterm :D


HP C2730A Envizex i - X-Terminal Station
Product Overview & Specifications

The Envizex “i” Station is ideal for end-users who require access to HP’s GUI-based system management applications while retaining console operations. The Envizex graphics console is both a system console and a full-function network connected X terminal on a single desktop.

This product is an X terminal customized to function as an HP 9000 server console. It retains all of its X terminal properties. It can be LAN connected to be used as a network attached display device, providing full X terminal capability including multi-window and graphics functionality.

The Envizex “i” station is an alternative for current character terminals. The Envizex can be serially connected to a server. The product is pre-loaded with software which allows it to automatically boot to start an hpterm serial session, and a local window manager. This product can replace any terminal as a console. This product also enables remote management of multiple serial consoles through the use of shared X. The ability to manage numerous consoles from a single location is a tremendous productivity improvement for your system staff.

C2730A Envizex “i” X-Terminal Station w/ 6MB memory

Specs
  • CPU type: i960
  • 10Base-T ThinLAN Port
  • 10Base-T Twisted pair port
  • 10Base-T AUI LAN Port
  • Parallel port
  • 2 Serial ports
  • HP-HIL Keyboard port
  • 15 pin Monitor port
  • mini din Keyboard and Mouse port

Add-on Memory (4 modules can be used) expandable to 132MB
  • C2323A 8MB memory module
  • C2747A 16MB memory module
  • C2748A 32MB memory module

Accessories
  • C2737A P/S 2 Mouse P/S 2 Keyboard
  • C3220A Audio kit with CD-quality (includes microphone)
  • C3221A 3.5” floppy disk drive
  • C3222A Adapter card with SCSI interface
  • C3224B Token Ring network adapter
  • C2357A 100VG Any-LAN adapter
bye.
The Envizex II supported 100BaseTX and 16-bit DirectColor. But finding one of them now is too difficult.

Another option might be the NCD NC900.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
You have run into the dilemma of Unix hobbyists everywhere. A lot of interesting old hardware is slow as shit, loud, rare, and almost too old to be useful.

New hardware is boring but fast and featureful. Any little Intel Atom box running Linux or whatever BSD will smoke any old hardware Xterm in every conceivable way. Performance, power consumption, image quality, X11 features, etc. It will also do X11+SSH, and maybe give you a rimjob too.

Recently I was watching an old HP 9000 workstation boot up. It took over 5 minutes to get from power switch to X11 CDE. These days, you can run CDE on any processor, and it will be much faster and also boot in a few seconds -- and not use hundreds of watts and sound like a jet engine. So really, which system is better at running CDE and other applications? In the 1990s, everyone would have thought that today's puny Atom was some super workstation of the future.

So the question is whether this hardware and these operating systems are so compelling that you want the big loud heavy hardware and slow performance that goes along with them. If you're a hobbyist, maybe you really do because you want a piece of history. But at this point, there is almost no sweet spot where you can get something that is genuinely useful in the modern world and yet still novel and cool from a historical perspective.
Debian GNU/Linux on a ThinkPad, running a simple setup with FVWM.
jwp wrote: You have run into the dilemma of Unix hobbyists everywhere


my girl friend said "things must have a purpose, otherwise I will put them on the flea bay"
(never under evaluate her threats :lol: :lol: :lol: )

jwp wrote: But at this point, there is almost no sweet spot where you can get something that is genuinely useful in the modern world and yet still novel and cool from a historical perspective


my mind likes the BeOS stickers, " do not think different be different "
even if sometimes the decision tree comes under the definition of nostalgic :D
bye.
Do you have any pictures of your XP217? The Terminals wiki have very little on it: http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/in ... nix_XP217C
Torfinn
There are some cool machines on that wiki. I have wanted an Ann Arbor Ambassador for years, but I don't think there are any left.
:PI: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2IMP:
tingo wrote: Do you have any pictures of your XP217?


A few pictures in my old FS topic , when I bought 2 units, I sold one unit to pay mine :D

Specification and a few pictures of XP400 (click on "1.2.1 Specification", a few pictures will follow)

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Tektronix Introduces Next Generation Multimedia Desktops; XP400 Series Delivers Simultaneous Full Motion Digital Video, Superior X Performance and High-Speed Networking Capabilities.


Link/Page Citation
WILSONVILLE, Ore.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 31, 1995--Tektronix (NYSE:TEK), a technology leader in both the enterprise computing and broadcast video industries, today introduced the next generation of high-performance integrated multimedia desktops for the commercial enterprise market.

The TekXpress(TM) XP400 series X terminals deliver a balanced combination of rapid display manipulation and high-quality digital audio/video capabilities in an architecture designed to accommodate increasingly fast enterprise networks. Leveraging the expertise of Tektronix' Video Systems and Network Displays Divisions, the XP400 series is intended to provide business users with a single desktop solution for graphical access to network information and distributed multimedia applications.

Demonstrating its strategic commitment to partner with customers in developing new products, Tektronix sought input from a regional Bell operating company before equipping the XP400 series with cutting edge capabilities for a customer/operator environment. Employing an optional MPEG audio/video co-processor, the XP400 series is capable of displaying multiple high-performance X windows and simultaneous, broadcast-quality video and audio. In addition, the XP400 series' wide, 32 bit I/O architecture is designed to support emerging standards for fast enterprise networks, including ATM and 100Mb/s Ethernet.

"We see the enormous opportunities that multimedia offers for both our customers and Tektronix," said Lucie Fjeldstad, president of Tektronix' Video and Networking Division. "Companies increasingly use distributed video and audio to train employees, share information and work with customers," Fjeldstad continued. "We're offering the first business desktop built from the ground up for these sorts of applications. Products like the XP400 demonstrate how Tektronix intends to leverage its expertise in emerging networking and video industry standards and become the technology and market leader in the area of distributed multimedia."



The XP400 is the only platform offering balanced performance in all areas: video, X functionality, and network access. "Now that multimedia is taking hold in the enterprise, balanced performance counts more than just X-marks," noted David Pinckard, Tektronix' general manager for Network Displays. "We incorporated an optional hardware MPEG co-processor to manage the multimedia functions for the XP400, making it possible to see sustained full-motion (30 frame-per-second) digital video with continuous X performance of better than 3 X-marks. By contrast, machines that use only software MPEG see a dramatic drop-off in video performance when X applications are running.S The hardware MPEG solution reflects a synergy of Tektronix' experience in the converging industries of digital video and network computing.

The XP400 series offers an unmatched combination of capabilities and performance at a price point that makes sense for commercial enterprises. No other X terminal currently on the market offers hardware assisted video which delivers full-motion/full-screen digital video at TV industry quality. With Tek XpressWare, the industry leading X Window-based information software, the XP400 series can access network mainframe, legacy and UNIX applications. With Tektronix' groundbreaking WinDD(TM) software, users can display Microsoft Windows(TM) and other PC applications directly on the XP400 series desktop.

Tektronix is targeting the XP400 series at enterprises that have been early adopters of multimedia technology. Innovators in the telecommunications, financial services and retail industries have recently turned to networked digital video for customer service, kiosk applications and interactive learning. The XP400 series' performance and screen quality are also well-suited for special uses -- such as energy and seismic analysis and document retrieval and storage -- which require processing speed and large screen resolutions. (In fact, the XP421 is optimized for such applications.) The XP400 series' flexible design and optional features allow customers to add the capabilities that best suit their needs.

The XP400 series' design is intended to keep pace with the growing demand for speed in enterprise networks. Its 32 bit I/O architecture will support future high-speed Ethernet, ATM, or ISDN cards.

XP400 specifics, availability, and pricing

Standard features for each member of the XP400 series include a high performance LSI 33120 RISC processor, 8 MB of RAM, expandable to 136MB, 2 MB of VRAM, Twisted pair Ethernet interface, two RS-232C ports, display, integrated power supply, power cord and mouse. Options include an advanced MPEG digital video co-processor, audio co-processor, Thinnet and Thicknet interface, externally accessed dual-slot PCMCIA interface, flash memory, parallel port, keyboard (as an F-kit) and Sony 20" monitor (for the XP419C). Also available as an option is a Token Ring PCMCIA adapter card. All members of the XP400 series are Energy Star compliant. Volume shipments of the XP400 series (with the exception of the XP421CH) will begin in June. The XP421CH will begin shipping in the fall. -0-
The XP400 family:


Platform Description Resolution Pricing(a)
XP400 logic base 1280x1024 at 72 Hz $2,695
XP417C color terminal 1280x1024 at 72 Hz $3,295
XP419C color terminal 1280x1024 at 72 Hz $4,195
XP421CH high resolution
color terminal(TM) 1600x1188 at 70 Hz $4,795
and 1280x1024 at 75 Hz


(a) Includes Keyboard Optional Sony 20" monitor available



Image
Image
Image

an auction on ebay says 550 euro for XP421 :shock: :shock: :shock:


while these dudes come with a lot of funny staff :D
bye.
Tek made excellent X terminals - I got to wrangle some back in the early 90s - but any (pre-thin client) X terminal is going to be stuck with an archaic version of X.

Thin clients are your best bet for something that can support X w/o running a full Linux distro. Have a look here for candidates - I'm partial to the HP T57xx models and the Wyse R90L (Dual DVI! A tiny GPU!), but there are a lot of candidates of varying capability and cost.

Most of them will be running WinXP Embedded or a stripped down Linux, but you'll still probably be lagging behind current protocol versions. Something to be said for finding or making a stripped down Linux or *BSD image to run on them...
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L: - :A3502L: :1600SW: +MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun , DG AViiON , NeXT :Cube:
Image
Irix@XDM over XpressWare

smj wrote: archaic version of X


in my practical experiences Tektronix XpressWare v7 (the running firmware in my XP217) is perfect for my purposes
and it supports Irix over XDM.CP :D

XpressWare is smaller and lighter than NCBridge , even if this one has more bells and whistles (nothing really better in my opinion)
The Boot Monitor is a built-in command line utility that provides easy way to input boot commans.
When turned on, the XPterm obtains its IP address and other information via BOOTP, then load the software from the server using TFTP
while if stopped by a key pressed then the BOOT> prompt is displayed on the screen, waiting for commands.

The OS is a Wind River VxWorks v5.* real-time OS, and the file format is MIPS ECOFF/big-endian

Practically a very good dog, never had a trouble with a software which comes under the definition of "Open/Motif compliant"
my problem is just this: XP217 is 10Mbit/sec & pseudo-color, and … I'd like to have a 100Mbit/sec & full-color!

I mean, 8-bit visuals and palette-swapping, said pseudo-color, oner 10Mbit/sec is good for light remote terminal work, but!
but don't expect to be able to use graphics-intensive applications or watch video on them!

smj wrote: Something to be said for finding or making a stripped down Linux or *BSD image to run on them.


In this case I am able to build a stripped linux distro uclibc based with X11 included (1)
so the best choice comes with the use of a board like this
x86 compatible and low cost (brand new for 180 euro, second hand for 50-70 euro)

but (2) I am simply too bored about that :D

p.s.
a friend here has converted his old & obsolete Apple Book Air into a pretty X11-term
he just needed to install "XQuartz" (which comes free for a personal usage) on MacOSX v10.7.5.
I can confirm it works fine!



(1) already built for my job (x86), used by Cerberus (PPC), used in my RS/P (MIPS32)
adapted & rebuilt a few days ago for Octane2(MIPS4), and in 2007 I did something similar for HPPA2

all of the above is practically used as "net boot", usually for first-aid purpose
I mean it bootstraps from lan, then the core runs entirely in ram and boots very quickly
it's a good tool when you have to repair a filesystem, or when you want to fix/upgrade/backup stuff
currently it's text console based, I might add X11 nanoX profiled to the userland but (2)
bye.
can someone confirm me that XP400 needs Tektronix XpressWare v8 ?
does somebody use it ? It seems that XpressWare v7 does not support XP400
bye.
Regarding the comment:
"So the question is whether this hardware and these operating systems are so compelling that you want the big loud heavy hardware and slow performance that goes along with them. If you're a hobbyist, maybe you really do because you want a piece of history. But at this point, there is almost no sweet spot where you can get something that is genuinely useful in the modern world and yet still novel and cool from a historical perspective"

"genuinely useful" is subjective. No youtube and no world of warcraft.. yeah, they are probably not useful for that.

Same with a classic car. "Big loud heavy hardware and slow performance". There are plenty of people who enjoy classic cars and even use daily. They get the job done and more.

Some of my classic cars are older than I am.. so its not always about nostalgia. Its an appreciation for how they were made, never to be reproduced again in the same way, more beautiful lines and curves.. pieces of art in their own right. How they feel, how they smell.. sitting in a new/modern car may not excite everyone.. less raw, less 'machine', less control. .

A classic UNIX workstation has a magic about them when compared to modern systems. The IRIX desktop and apps have a feel.. a 'smell'.. down-to-business attitude without fluff.. no airbags bulging out door panels.... without 10mph impact bumpers.. full access to the engine and components including dipsticks (those seem to be missing these days).. instead of throw-away computer components and plastic engine covers... like a UNIX command line exposing the OS in all its beauty.. instead of point-n-click everything. Virus free (but not worms).. and out of the hacker spotlight that plagues modern systems.

Today's Cloud Computing phenomenon can allow the modern use of classic systems. A classic system or a modern system end up the same when accessing cloud resources. Where ipads and iphones lead to 'web browser' and content consumption, this leaves real work to be done on a classic. Graphics, 3D, coding, IT/administration, documentation/publishing, you name it.. its doable on a classic UNIX workstation.

-Kevin
I am a bit confused about XpressWare

XpressWare V8.0

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WILSONVILLE, Ore.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 17, 1995--Tektronix, Inc. (NYSE:TEK), the fastest-growing major X terminal vendor, further strengthened its network desktop technology lead with today's announcement of the latest version of XpressWare(TM) software.

XpressWare V8.0 includes a number of tools designed to lower system administration costs for Tektronix TekXpress desktops. It also provides the local display portion of Tektronix' new WinDD(TM) software for direct Microsoft Windows(TM) access from any Tektronix display.

"This new software release, coming just nine months after our last major upgrade, will provide much of the technology necessary for us to capture the enterprise desktop," explained Dave Pinckard, director of marketing for the Tektronix Network Displays Division. "We've been aggressively developing products that help our customers reduce cost of ownership through advanced systems management tools and that also improve desktop network access. XpressWare V8.0, with its new system administration tools and Windows access, strengthens our hold on the enterprise market. In fact, we expect this software to significantly raise the standard for competitors, since we're providing customers with a number of unique capabilities."

XpressWare V8.0 includes the local display client for Tektronix' new WinDD software, providing direct user access to any Microsoft Windows application. This Microsoft Windows access, in combination with the existing mainframe, midrange and UNIX connectivity for Tektronix desktops, enables corporations to implement a single multi-client desktop solution regardless of the mixture of platforms on the network.



"We're very excited about the flexibility WinDD could provide for our network," noted Jim Hogan, manager of systems development for COBE Renal Care in Lakewood, CO. "The ability to manage a mixed PC and Unix environment from a single desktop translates into a labor and cost savings for us. In fact, we've been so impressed with WinDD that we may take advantage of Tektronix' trade-in offer to replace our existing terminals with new TekXpress desktops."

The release of XpressWare V8.0, combined with existing TekXpress X terminal technology, underscores the reason why commercial enterprises are turning to X terminals as an alternative to networked PCs. A recent study by the Gartner Group concluded that "when all the costs are considered including support, administration, and upgrade costs, the five-year cost of ownership of X terminals is considerably less than networked PCs with similar functionality."

In addition to Windows access for Tektronix multi-client desktops, XpressWare V8.0 includes a number of enhanced systems administration capabilities. While XpressWare already provided for completely centralized administration, remote system configuration, remote monitoring and a wide range of system and network connectivity options, the latest software version further increases the company's network administration leadership:

Reduced costs through simplified administration

-- Enhanced host selection (XPMCP) tools for assigning primary and backup hosts

-- Tunable NFS for optimizing network performance

-- Easier administration tracking of licensed software capabilities with centralized authorization keys

Support for heterogeneous environments

-- Support for Open VMS on DEC Alpha platforms

-- WinDD Local Client for access to PC Windows applications

Support for industry standards

-- Motif Window Manager 2.0

-- SNMP MIB update for compliance to open systems standards

Increased user productivity

-- Reboot X terminal from easy-to-use setup menu

-- Enhancements for Europe include Sun type 5 keyboard and Spanish LK401

Specific functionality for Process Control and Monitoring

-- XBlink extension to support blinking graphics for visual alarms


it doesn't say which XP terminals it supports, while the following is what I have in my XpressWare V7.0 CD

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satura # ls /mnt/cdrom/tekxp/boot/os*
os.010
os.330
os.350


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satura # ls /mnt/cdrom/tekxp/boot/XP*
XP10_OS.SYS
XP10_ST.SYS
XP330_PEX.SYS
XP350_OS.SYS
XP10_PT.SYS
XP330_OS.SYS
XP330_ST.SYS
XP350_ST.SYS


I have a table which says what is supported

  • os.010 -> { xp11, xp12, xp13, xp18, xp19 }
  • os.330 -> { xp334, xp336, xp337, xp338 }
  • os.350 -> { xp100, xp114c, xp115m, xp117c, xp119c, xp119m, xp217C , xp350, xp354, xp356, xp358 }

so, as described here , my xp217c requires os350, I can confirm it works good
but I have no idea, and no documentation about xp400 :shock: :shock: :shock:


Pages like this do not help, while the Entropy is growing up X___X


googling I found an article, written in Spanish

... estos terminales requieren el software XpressWare v8.0 o versiones posteriores.


it says that these terminal require XpressWare v8.0 or above (which means v8.1, the last one, or NCDbridge)
so no chance with my XpressWare v7
bye.
it's not X11, but WYSE TERMINAL WY-160ES 900985-06 is Vintage WOW technology

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Technology
CPU : 15 MHz 8032 microcontroller
MEMORY : 40KB high-speed static CMOS RAM (includes 8K lithium battery-backed RAM)
VIDEO : Up to 8 pages of screen memory
VIDEO PROCESSOR : Surface-mounted, Wyse-designed application - specific integrated circuit (ASIC)
Display Features
MONITOR SIZE : 14-inch diagonal, flat, non-glare CRT, with electrostatic field reduction.

IMAGE SIZE : Borderless, 9.65 x 7.25 in (245 x 185 mm) full-screen image
COLORS : P-188(paper white),
REFRESH : Flicker-free, 76 Hz or 60 Hz; non-interlaced

RESOLUTION : Tektronix 4010/4014 (640 x 477) PC Graphic Formats: Hercules (720 x 348), CGA (640 x 400), EGA (640 x 350), VGA (640 x 480) ADJUSTMENTS : Tilt & swivel
USER CONTROLS : clustered brightness, contrast, and power controls adjacent to front bezel AlphaNumeric Features
COMPATIBILITY :WY-160, WY-50/50+, ADDS Viewpoint A2, Data General D200, D210/ 214, D211/215,TeleVideo TVI 910+, 925, 950, 955. DEC VT-220 (VT320 ID & ISO Latin-1 character set supported ), VT- 100, VT- 52; PC TerminalSCREEN : 27 lines or 44 lines; 80 or 132 columns  Variable speed smooth/jump scroll, status line, key click, and screen saver CURSOR : Block or underline, blink, steady or off
FONTS : Simultaneously program and display 512 unique characters and symbols CHARACTER CELLS : 80 columns: 10 x 20,10 x 16, or 10 x 13 cell; 132 columns: 9 x 20, 9 x 16, or 9 x 10 cell  ATTRIBUTES : Normal, dim, bold, blank, all combinations of reverse, underline and blink; choice of double high and/or double wide per line.
CUSTOMIZATION : User-definable editing and function keys, up to 66 key combinations (with SHIFT and SELECT), approximately 600 bytes of non-volatile memory.
LAYOUT : Choice of International Enhanced PC (103 keys), Wyse ASCII (101 keys), Wyse ANSI (101 keys), Wyse ANSI (105 keys) and Enhanced PC (102 keys).
KEYBOARD: Enhanced PC (103 keys) and Wyse ANSI (105 Keys) Wyse ASCII (101 keys) Wyse ANSI (101 keys)
Model Numbers-10
Communications/Ports
MODES : Full/half duplex, block, local, monitor (debug)
MAIN (User Selectable) : Serial 1: RS-423/232 DB-25F, up to 115.2 Kbaud
Serial 2 : RS-423/232 DB-9M, up to 38.4 Kbaud
PRINTER (User Selectable) :
Serial 1 : RS-423/232 DB-25F, up to 115.2 Kbaud
Serial 2 : RS-423/232 DB-9M, up to 38.4 Kbaud
Centronics parallel : DB-25F


Go Go 8032@15 MHz + ASIC VDU, and sounds like VT-220 @ 115200bps, super :D :D :D
&& ebay dot co dot uk says that this guy has a few of those for sale (£68.26 ~ US $100.00 )


and funny things you can do with VT100 :D :D :D


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Concerning XP400 && Xpressware v8 , it seems that computerequipmentwarehouse has it, but … they said that they are used to be reps for Tektronix and their deal with them was to sell the machines and load software rights on there, so they can't sell just the software , they can program authorizations for the softwares and make them talk to dec sun etc but they cannot sell the main system software they load them on.

in short Xpressware v8 + XP400 takes 598..698 USD :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
bye.